Anyone else wind up feeling bad for Clu 2 at the end of the movie?

He's a sinister bastard through much of the film, but by the end we've essentially learned that he's simply tried to do his best to do the job he was meant to do: create the perfect "system" according to Kevin Flynn's own concepts in 1989.

Thus when the ISOs appear and Kevin Flynn starts changing his mind and/or freelancing, it's not that hard to see why Clu gradually comes to fear and hate Flynn -- as a betrayer of the original mission given to Clu at Clu's inception.

On a deeper level, I also got the notion that Clu was an orphaned son in a somewhat similar fashion as Sam: having created Clu, Flynn ultimately abandons him (emotionally) as he chases the new vision of the ISOs, and suddenly Clu can't deal with being second fiddle; because he's not emotionally mature enough to adapt to the new reality.

In a way Clu and Quorra are a lot alike. In fact, all of the programs seem to share this: a very child-like worldview wherein their programmed purpose overrides all else, and they don't have thus subtle or nuanced experience of the real world necessary to make dramatic paradigm shifts.

For Clu, all there is is The Grid, and his mission to make it "perfect." He can't accept the ISOs nor Flynn's shifting vision for the future, so he decides Flynn and the ISOs are the real problem, destroys one and exiles the other, and then begins hatching plans to export his "perfection" beyond the closed universe of Flynn's server.

Problematic facial duplication software aside, I wound up finding Clu to be an entirely sympathetic villain -- which is often the best kind. Anybody can make a cardboard cut-out that's easy to hate. Part of what makes TL tick for me is that the villain is someone I found easy to empathize with, and even feel sorry for.order abortion pill morning after pill price where to buy abortion pill

That's why I think they should bring Clu back or in 3.0 form of a fusion. I liked the character and think it is ridiculous to use him as a throwaway villain like Darth Maul.

I got the same vibe from the movie. That's one of the things I disliked about it. Clue never took responsibility for his actions. He blames everyone else but himself. And then Flynn seems to agree with him and takes the blame. That seems like one of the themes of the movie. Your actions are not your fault, they're somebody else's. And if blaming the world doesn't work, blame God. Horrible message.

Where I am in life is the product of my discussions. I can trace every success and failure back to there origin, in my life. And I blame no one. But, I've learned from my mistakes and grow wiser because I take responsibility for them.

Not to mention that there is evil in the world. It's root is in narcissism, not good intentions or an obsession with perfection. Dictators aren't trying to create the perfect system. They are self absorbed, power hungry people. They want to be God and want the world to worship them as God. Look at Kim Jong Il. His people are in poverty. He has no desire to make their life better. He wants to keep them oppressed and under his thumb. Every dictator is this way. They just give the, I care speech, to gain the support of the people. They never have any intention of making peoples life better. Evil is evil, we need to stop trying to rationalize it.

Please understand, I am not trying to excuse Clu's fictional actions as a despot. By the time we meet him in 2010 he has clearly spent so long being a king, alone, the power has corrupted him and made him angry, vengeful, bitter, and unyielding.

But we get glimpses of him before all of that happened. And there is obviously a time when Clu 2 shares far more in common with the original Clu, than with the Clu that comes face to face with Sam.

For me, it was the moment with the chrome apple, when Clu sees his distorted face reflecting in the apple's surface. There, surrounded by all of Kevin Flynn's things, Clu is suddenly reminded that he's a copy of Flynn, who has tried to please his creator -- and failed -- and who has also tried to forge his own vision of perfection, but also failed.

Thus Clu 2 is the very picture of frustration. He hates the Grid because he can't make it perfect and he can't escape it. Having turned on Flynn, he longs for Flynn's approval but he can't ever get it. Maybe I am reaching too hard on this, but after seeing the movie a second time, Clu 2 became the most interesting of all the characters.

BigbadMCP Wrote:The way I saw it, Clu really represented Flynn's "dark side," as it were--his former youthful desire to make everything perfect. We all learn as we mature that perfection isn't really possible in our world, and that the strength and beauty of human beings and the natural world often lies in their imperfections, but Clu hasn't been able to learn that because of his programming. Since Flynn has had many years to reflect on his error, it's appropriate that he takes the blame, since Clu is really his old self--I wasn't a classics major, but it's essentially the age-old tragic flaw of hubris. We're not supposed to identify with Clu, but with Flynn, and we're supposed to understand that perfection is a dangerous thing to strive for. Hey Sub-Odeon, I really enjoy your posts! Very well-written, well-reasoned, and insightful. Keep 'em coming!

Thanks! I don't spend nearly as much time around here as I ought to, but with TL coming out, I've been enjoying reading and participating in this forum.

I agree with all you said above: Clu is very much prevented from growing in the way Kevin has grown, because Clu is tied to his original programming: to create the perfect system, as Flynn saw it in 1989.

In a similar way, even Tron cannot entirely escape his programming. He can never bring himself to kill a User because his base code is purpose-built for service towards and in defense of the Users. Thus he experiences his Vader moment, and turns on Clu in the final battle.

Clu to me exactly represents Flynn's youthful hubris. Clu was created at a time when Flynn thought the Grid could be turned into a world-changer, solving an endless number of problems. Flynn learned better, later, especially when the ISOs appeared and suddenly Flynn's whole plan went to scrap, because the ISOs were more than Flynn could have ever created on his own.abortion pills online abortion pill online purchase cytotec abortion

Again, I agree very much.

In 1982 Flynn was pretty much a precocious hacker. Free-wheeling, interested in getting his name back at ENCOM only because he was painfully aware of the fact that his hard work on Space Paranoids was making someone else rich and powerful.

TL establishes that when Flynn went big time with ENCOM, he wound up like a lot of the very-very-rich: he decided there had to be more to life than money, and so he began pursuing the digital world as his Magnum Opus. That his wife died probably only further underscored his desire for perfection on The Grid when, through his own later admission, the real world is painfully imperfect.

Honestly, the more I ponder TRON Legacy the deeper the movie gets.

This is a far deeper film than I ever suspected when I first saw it last Thursday night.

Sub-Odeon Wrote:Again, I agree very much. In 1982 Flynn was pretty much a precocious hacker. Free-wheeling, interested in getting his name back at ENCOM only because he was painfully aware of the fact that his hard work on Space Paranoids was making someone else rich and powerful. TL establishes that when Flynn went big time with ENCOM, he wound up like a lot of the very-very-rich: he decided there had to be more to life than money, and so he began pursuing the digital world as his Magnum Opus. That his wife died probably only further underscored his desire for perfection on The Grid when, through his own later admission, the real world is painfully imperfect. Honestly, the more I ponder TRON Legacy the deeper the movie gets. This is a far deeper film than I ever suspected when I first saw it last Thursday night.

Not only that, you can view Clu as a digital version of Lucifer as created by God . God gave Lucifer the realm of Hell to reign over. So, essentially he IS CLUcifer . He wanted to be like God and aspired to be of the highest order.

What's so wrong with a program that wants to be more than a binary number and evolve? Is'nt that supposed to be progression to being human? Does that make him evil for wanting to be more than the sum of his parts?

And that golden reflective apple? Goes back to the garden of Eden as the 'tree of knowledge' and Flynn's disc is the digital "holy grail" .
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Sub-Odeon Wrote:Wow, pilgrim, even I didn't see the chrome apple connection to the Garden of Eden mythos. Great analysis! You're right, Clu does have a bit of the Morning Star about him. Well thought out. Thanks for making the point.

Or better yet, replaced "I, Claudius" with "I, Clu" as a new tv series with all that digital political intrique .

One thing I do foresee is the irony how Tron City may migrate back to the ENCOM server and if that is the case, those programs in ENCOM are far more powerful and may look down with disdain at Flynn's creation in which CLU will have to be summoned to defend it or lead it to be integrated with Flynn's presence. And that means, the TRON of ENCOM will write over TRON in the SD memory card as a higher version.

It's like using two versions of Photoshop, which one will take priority?

I took the liberty of blogging this today:

http://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2010/12/22/tron-legacy-a-modern-fairy-tale/

Agreed, good commentary, programs!abortion pills online http://www.kvicksundscupen.se/template/default.aspx?abortion-questions cytotec abortion

Sub-Odeon Wrote:I took the liberty of blogging this today: http://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2010/12/22/tron-legacy-a-modern-fairy-tale/ Agreed, good commentary, programs!

Excellent article. The one thing I took away from the movie about CLU is that he WAS doing for what he was created. Flynn underestimated this because he forgot the duality of human nature and basically CLU was the "digital" clone of Flynn who doesn't know his own strength. Eventually it begins to feel good to CLU what he is doing, though it is evil. He has been formed to "know" his directives from day one, without the nurturing hand of a true parent and teacher. Flynn was right when he finally accepted the fact that he failed CLU in this aspect. So now Flynn has two children that he has let down on certain levels as a father. His dream of utopia can never be realized because the human equation is always flawed.