that's true.

I have yet to see Lara croft nude on a console.

wait...did I just blurt that out loud?

MutoidMan Wrote:Variety goes both ways.

I think that's a bit implicit. And as I said previously:

"But there is never a good reason to align your loyalty, now and forever, to one corporate brand. There are good games out there for each and every platform or system."

MutoidMan Wrote:Eschewing the staggering library of classic and groundbreaking PC games on the tenuous position that PCs have to be upgraded too often for the limited library of any particular console to me seems bland rather than spicy.

I think that I, and others who prefer console gaming, have made it clear that our preferences are based on multiple factors, not any one singular complaint. Referring to a tangible concern as tenuous does not mitigate the charge. It may be a small or nonexistent issue for YOU, but that does not mean it is a small or nonexistent issue for ME. Regardless, I have never been in favor of mistaking the messenger for the message.

"It's not about the system. It's about the games you play on it."

"I still do a bit of PC gaming. I probably always will."

"But all platforms have their pluses and minuses."

"First and foremost, platforms do not equal games. I play my games based on the games."

In short, I would never cut off either PC or console gaming. There's more than enough room for both.

MutoidMan Wrote:After all, why bother going all-out to improve gaming technology when console gamers are quite happy with not being able to upgrade?

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An experience with PC gaming that left me sour was Stronghold 2. My computer would not play it, so I went through an expensive and time consuming series of upgrades (in the end, this included the processor, ram and a new motherboard). The result was a game that still didn't run very well.

Eventually, I bought a brand new computer. Spent quite a bit of money. Finally, SH2 played at an acceptable (if not ideal) level. This was when Medieval Total War was announced. I downloaded the demo, and found it unplayable on my new system.

This has not always been the case. Several games I purchased played just fine. But I prefer some security when I make my purchase. I don't want to work to play my games. I don't want to spend my weekends trying to figure out why they don't work and I don't want to drive back and forth to the store picking up new parts to upgrade. I want to put the game in and I want to play it. Now, if I could return unplayable games, I might feel differently. But at the stores in my area, there is a no return policy on opened software.

So now I play only older PC games (some with great frequency). But I don't even bother with the new. Eventually, they'll become the older games and I'll probably have a system that will handle them.

First off....

Why the hell isn't this thread about Bioshock?


Second...

I may be anti-console, but then again I'm a rather productive person. I make music, videos, photos, and use some 3D Cad programs. Things that consoles can't handle. However... it still comes to one thing.. How serious are you about games?

If you are PC... Then you might be serious enough to use developer tools (which comes with most PC games) to either make your own game, or just make little mods.

If you are console.. Then you just like to play games...

It's that easy. There shouldn't be any debate about it.
Look... we are all gamers here... despite which platform we choose. It's about time we bitch about the lack of experimentation of games than to screw us with the same crap that developers have been giving us for years..

There has to be more than FPS, RPG, 3rdPS, 2D platformers, etc..... I mean.... if we look back into retrospec, Tetris did a good job over Pac-Man...

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Admittedly, there are situations where DRM and Copy Supression are used in an over-the-top fashion. Bioshock may be that type of case.

Perhaps when I get to 2K Games as QA Manager on October 1st I can get involved and help steer how they use these tools, but I still stand by what I have said about piracy.

Your Divx example holds no water because I can go back farther to early PC games where there was an active pirate community long before Divx. Back in 1990 and 1991 I had copies of commercial games I bought from a local store here in Van Nuys that were bootlegged onto their own store labelled discs.

I owned a copy of Copy-II-PC (Still have it actually) and it's sole purpose was to crack early red-sheet and code wheel copy protection in games. As soon as people knew they could copy the data themselves they started stealing games.

In 1991 when I started at Disney Software one of the questions we asked was "Where did you purchase your copy of the game?", why? Because people would say, "Oh, I got it from my neighbor, it was too expensive to buy."

Yet they wanted fucking customer support for something they STOLE!!!!

The little pirate scumbags who bootleg games for the kick of it you will never stop. They are thieves and assholes, and they like being thieves and assholes.

The people that you really need to stop are the ones who give away a copy as a favor, it's not hurting anyone. Those companies have deep pockets.

No they don't.

I have seen hundreds of people let go in lean times because of poor sales of games that I know are being played more than they were sold.

It's this kind of passive piracy done by normal people who ought to know better that sucks. I used to be one of them. I still catch myself doing things I shouldn't like downloading music I have never purchased. I even need to stop myself.

If I play it, or listen to it, or read it, and enjoyed it, then the people who made it are due their money.

Unfortunately I hear the cop outs like "Well, I stayed up all night playing and finished it in one sitting so I don't need to pay for it."

Bullshit!

I am getting a little passionate on the topic. I just think people need to look at what they do and change. I have. I buy the things I like if I have a "copy", and I delete what I don't. I don't share anything with anyone that I purchased. If you want to try a game I ow, come over and play at my house. Don't ask for copies.

We all have our ways of overlooking the evils that we do or justifying them in some way, but when you get right down to it, we all steal something, and we all need to stop.

Aigh!!! I need to get off my soapbox. Later, I am outta this topic. I can't really call myself a lurker if I am posting again can I?

Get me started on my views on Trialware sometime. I had a plan that I really think would have worked, and got laughed out of a room. I even know a company that wants to do it, but they can't get in a door to sell it in. Good ideas get stomped.

Thats a mouthful, Dave.. Well said... Kudos from my end..

Qix77:

It's nice to have a debate here, as opposed to alot of forums, because unlike most I consider this a forum of friends. The fact is, we're all intelligent people with myriad experiences and interests. Much of what we're discussing is unanswerable. All we can do is forward opinions.

So no, I didn't *really* think you meant anything in a negative way about productivity. And I should address your statements a bit more as they are clearly intended. You are 100% correct. PC gamers have more options in that regard and that is an advantage.

Personally, I feel that over the top copy protection is to prevent people from turning them into "used games". Used games shops like Gamestop are where I buy the majority of my games. I can't tell you the last time I bought a new one.

I bought Half-Life 2 used, but the person who sold it to me had to give me their Steam login and password or it wouldn't work.

Sorry, but I am not going to stop buying used games.

Deadly Disks Wrote:It's like the porn rack behind the counter at a mini-mart. You kind of glance at it, but you don't dare stare or the clerk will ask you if you want to buy a smut rag right in front of all the other patrons in the store.

A) What kind of games are you playing?

B) Where can I get them?

Deadly Disks Wrote:The only mod I ever played that I really loved was Desert Combat (a BF’42 mod), and the jerks at Dice and EA bought the concept from the mod team and turned it into the lackluster Battlefield 2.

Amen to all that brudda! DC = best game ever made, and I enjoy just as much now as I did when I first played it. You should try the BF Pirates http://www.bfpirates.com/?Page=Downloads mod though, lotta fun.

I noticed how Bioshock seems like such a popular thing to discuss, so checked out their stock, and found out those guys (take two) are all corrupt, either getting kicked out of the company by investors and facing fines/jail time, so I'm not touching it, thought it'd be interesting to note.
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