TronFAQ Wrote:You're right. But except in certain instances, I have yet to see game companies shut down mod projects on a large scale.

Sure. But remember we're discussing the hypothetical situation where they do take measures to cease such activities.

TronFAQ Wrote:The difference between games and other mediums, is that games are interactive and the others are passive forms of entertainment. In games, the players actually take some ownership. In the sense that, it becomes a personal experience when they play. The outcome of the game depends on how they play. This leads to a sense of wanting to put their own personal stamp on the game itself, as a whole. Which is undoubtedly why modding has become so popular. A chance to take a game universe and personalize it, to have the game play the way you like it to.

As you know, that the same process of fan recreation is happening with other mediums. I'm of the opinion that storytelling is storytelling. Yes, games typically allow more divergent paths (although experiments in this regard in fiction long pre-exist the invention of video games), but the ideal result is often to take the reader/viewer/player from point A to point B.

TronFAQ Wrote:Also, games have a lot more technical glitches than, say, film. It's much easier for a film director to achieve his vision exactly the way he intended it, than a game programming team. Later down the line, problems with the game can be discovered. Unintended glitches that the game programmers didn't forsee. Then what? If the fans have an opportunity to fix problems, should they take it? So that everyone can benefit?

Of course. Like I said, I AM in favor of these things. But conversely, I cannot fault the publishers if the make the choice to prohibit such actions.

TronFAQ Wrote:Finally, just like there are fan mods, there are also fan films, fiction, you name it.

Well yeah. Like I said in my previous post, I'm working on my own fan edit of a television show.

TronFAQ Wrote:Should they also cease, because the creators of an entertainment property don't like it?

I think this is sliding into a tangent. I'm not saying that the copyright holders can or should do anything. I'm certainly not saying these things should cease. What I'm saying is that the copyright holders are under no OBLIGATION to make this process easy. You're advancing a hypothetical scenario where the publishers will have taken control of how their games are seen and played. But this IS their right. These are their games. Personally, I think it's limiting for them to take actions that prohibit fan creations. But they are free to choose that path.

If they only release bonus material at a cost, that's their right. If they lock the games to specific machines, that's their right. We have the option to choose. We can make our own games or we can choose not to play. They're just games after all. Games created to make a profit. When people start doing this with the water supply, THEN it's time to take action.

The gist of what I'm saying is that if an Orwellian system is what you are concerned with, then vote with your dollar. Deny the corporations your support when they take certain practices too far.where to buy abortion pill ordering abortion pills to be shipped to house buy abortion pill online

The PimpDragon Wrote: Mutoid Man: Already my PC is falling closer to the minimum hardware requirements of the new games than it does to the recommended hardware requirements. pc > console All I'm sayin' is that I am having ZERO problems playing BioShock on my 360. That's all! I know that PC gamers are loyal to their PCs, but to me, my PC is for filing my taxes online, chatting with friends and, as "Avenue Q" taught us, using the Internet, which is for porn! Consoles are what I game on. Computers are what I work on! But, I've always been a console gamer and it works for me! I can't hook my PC up to my home theater system (because of location), so I can't game in 7.1 surround sound and on a 48" HDTV on a PC. I got mad console love, plain and simple! Thanks, Atari 2600 and original NES, for starting me down that path! For those that can use their PC in a kickin' setup, I say "Good on ya, mate!" I'm not trying to start some sort of feud, so everyone please untwist your panties and enjoy whatever type of gaming you enjoy!

That's fine; however, the juxtaposition of my two comments does not constitute irony.

Also, I never insinuated that my PC has any trouble playing BioShock. In fact, my PC plays it very smoothly at 1600X1200 with all the DX9c graphical bells and whistles turned on; thanks to my 64MB X-Fi sound card I can enable all of the audio bells and whistles as well.

In my experience, the Atari 2600, Colecovision, Intellivision, and NES were all great fun. However, once I played games on the Commodore 64 there was no going back; from then on I've been a dyed-in-the-wool PC gamer.

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The Copy Supression software I used on TRON 2.0.....SecuROM. Just thought you'd want to know.

Nudges Quixx77 in the shoulder. Psst quixx do you mean this one here. Making it look as if it was almost a drug deal of hardware in a joking way.

lurkinghorror Wrote:If they lock the games to specific machines, that's their right.

So you wouldn't mind at all if game publishers locked every game you bought to your specific machine? Yeah, I'm sure that will go down well with the buying public, when that happens.

People are already angry at the music and movie industry for trying to tell them what they can and cannot do with their purchased music and movies. DRM is universally despised by the majority, and record companies are already dropping DRM because it doesn't work.

It may be the publishers' "right" to do so, but I wish them well if they try to enforce it.

We can make our own games

Not everyone wants to make their own game. And it's tough for independent developers to compete with multi-million dollar game titles, in this day and age where gamers are so spoiled by graphics.

The gist of what I'm saying is that if an Orwellian system is what you are concerned with, then vote with your dollar. Deny the corporations your support when they take certain practices too far.

Let's hope enough people become angry in this situation as well, to make a difference. So that the games industry too, will drop the overbearing DRM. Otherwise, Bioshock will set a precedent, that will see the beginning of a trend where game companies gain too much control.

DaveTRON Wrote:The Copy Supression software I used on TRON 2.0.....SecuROM.

Again, the version of SecuROM used on Tron 2.0 was more than acceptable. I don't think anyone would have had a valid reason to complain about it. (Except in cases where SecuROM prevented the game from installing and running, but those cases were rare and isolated.)

The version of SecuROM being used on Bioshock now, is a whole different story. The software has changed dramatically in intent and scope, since 2003. Let me put this into perspective, so you can all understand why there's been such a fuss, and why so many people are upset.

Bioshock requires internet activation before you can play. In addition to activation, you also need to provide a serial number (no biggie) and also still keep your DVD in the drive (so activation isn't enough, they want you to keep the disc in the drive too?).

On the day of release, and even for several days afterward, the servers run by SecuROM were overwhelmed with activation requests and crashed. People who had bought the game, were not able to play it until the servers were fixed. And the servers crashed multiple times. Would any of you put up with this? Let's apply it to a different situation. Let's say you're settling down for the evening and want to relax by popping in a movie you just bought, and it refused to play because it couldn't connect to an activation server. Again, would you put up with this? No, I didn't think so. (Remember Divx? The player and disc format, not the codec. Remember how well that did?)

You know what, though? I can put up with a one time activation, serial number, and needing to keep the disc in the drive. But it gets worse.

When the game was first released, you could only install Bioshock twice. EVER. If you installed the game more than twice, you would have to call SecuROM to get more activations. And in order to get more activations, they want you to take a photo of your disc and manual and send it in before they would grant you more activations. A little over the top, you think?

This limit was raised to five, but that's still not enough. That still means you can only install the game five times, EVER. You are renting the software now. You don't own it any more. And what happens if in a few years from now, you feel like installing Bioshock again, and SecuROM no longer supports the game? Because either 2K or SecuROM decide to drop support or go out of business? Then what? Unless 2K releases a patch to eliminate online activation, you are sorder abortion pill morning after pill price where to buy abortion pill

lurkinghorror Wrote:

It doesn't matter. They can stop buying the stuff. It's not like these are things people NEED.

(IMO)
Thus they make $1000 on a new console kiddie, or better, stop making thier bullshiF, and sell more cosole titles they ripped from pc consumers, who protects who? bow to the dollar, like they want, or else.

The point of making games, is fun. several other countries have thier military make thier games, no government official has the nuts to commision the public in the us to make games, there is no consumer friendly isle in any store, they don't dare let anyone set a standard, since they are the bludgeoneers.


Technology gets stronger, thus, the need for making the people who make it weak, same old shiF. I feel the reputations of these people should be in question, moreso than the consumer.... yeah lol.. hell hath no fury..

They are incapable of getting up from that slouch, just pay for a console, rent your game, work for your sorry game, screw up that pc, you can do it.
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It's easy enough not to buy one.

But all platforms have their pluses and minuses. In the end, it's not about the system. It's about the games you play on it.

To be fair, frequency is a relative concept.

I've found no PC lasts me more than about two years, maybe three. But even with an upgrade at about every four... The average lifespan of a console is about six.

As for the bazillion benefits... Enh... I think that's relative once more.

Variety is the spice of life, after all!