Kat Wrote:We're asked to believe that Flynn's such a frigging genius that he not only personally invented technologies like wifi long before anyone else did, but he also figured out quantum teleportation.

As we can clearly see in the first film, Flynn had nothing to do with creating the digitizing technology. That was all done by Lora, Gibbs, and their whole group. It was a company wide project, and Dillinger even refers to it as "One of the most sophisticated pieces of equipment in the world".
My only question is what happened to that technology after Flynn took over? Did he just want to keep it quite until he had fully developed the Grid and figured out how to introduce it to the world? I could see that from someone like him. I imagine he would want to take time and be very careful because of the implications of such dramatically advanced technology. He would be the type to remember that just because we can do something doesn't mean we should do that thing.
Also, as some one else mentioned, Flynn only said he'd thought up the idea of Wi-Fi, not that he invented it.

cirlin Wrote: Kat Wrote:We're asked to believe that Flynn's such a frigging genius that he not only personally invented technologies like wifi long before anyone else did, but he also figured out quantum teleportation. As we can clearly see in the first film, Flynn had nothing to do with creating the digitizing technology. That was all done by Lora, Gibbs, and their whole group. It was a company wide project, and Dillinger even refers to it as "One of the most sophisticated pieces of equipment in the world". My only question is what happened to that technology after Flynn took over? Did he just want to keep it quite until he had fully developed the Grid and figured out how to introduce it to the world? I could see that from someone like him. I imagine he would want to take time and be very careful because of the implications of such dramatically advanced technology. He would be the type to remember that just because we can do something doesn't mean we should do that thing. Also, as some one else mentioned, Flynn only said he'd thought up the idea of Wi-Fi, not that he invented it.

Right, but he had to maintain the laser, right, and figure out exactly how everything worked out for digitizing people. I don't imagine he went gallivanting around digitizing himself too much before he worked on making sure that the second time wasn't going to vaporize him. Although I suppose he might have if he were curious enough. But he'd still have to figure out the implications to the human body if he was planning on other folks going there some day.

Besides, the point is that many of the arguments here have been that it would've worked because Flynn said it would, as if he was the one with supreme knowledge about how this digitization thing worked. Whereas in reality he may have just crossed his fingers each time and hoped nothing went wrong. Or as Elton John says, "And all this science, I don't understand..."

But it can't be both. Either he knew all about it, or he didn't.

cirlin Wrote: Incorrect! Sweet Dreams by the Eurythmics was playing by that time! This totally invalidates your argument! (Not really)

ha ha. I prefer to thing that a Man like Kevin Flynn puts "Separate Ways" on endless free repeat on his jukebox.

Weirdly that song has been on that Jukebox since 1982... It was playing when Lora and Alan stopped by the Arcade the night Flynn ended up on the ENCOM Grid...

trekking95 Wrote:If you are saying the prequel movies are no good you are wrong. I like the originals better but the new ones are good as well.

I liked Phantom Menace alright and my appreciation for it grew as the other two movies were released.

---
You seem to be a Star Trek fan, so let me ask you this: Did you ever see that Star Trek: TNG Episode called "Tapestry" Where Picard is shot in the heart on an away mission? Picard lay dying, knowing that he would have lived if he had a real human heart - instead of the artificial heart he's had since he was a cadet. As he's about to die, Q appears and offers Picard the chance to go back and fix the big "mistake" that he made when he was young so he doesn't lose his human heart.

Picard takes the chance and succeeds - keeping his heart and living his life out as a "whole" person.

However, Picard ends up in some empty pathetic low-end Star Fleet job because he removed all the passion and recklessness from his life. He ends up miserable, and weirdly Q actually saves him so that he can live on as the man he really was, and not that man that he would have become precisely because he was reckless and uneven and passionate about things - despite the mistakes he made when he was young. It would have been an incredible finale to the series - especially if he died.

You see, some lucky people make one masterpiece in their lives. Lucas made three. Instead of accepting that each one had warts, but was as close to "perfection" as a human being could come, he decided to go back and tinker with the originals. And instead of learning to tell new stories, he ended up cannibalizing his past and frankly letting his ego run rampant. Those three prequels and the "revised" originals are what happens when someone with limitless power and money has the chance to go back and fix his own mistakes

The prequels could have been really good, if someone had been there to temper his ego. Director or Writer, someone to keep him in check. Instead we got three star wars re-writes, three lack luster prequels that diminish the originals, and we were treated to "Indiana Jones 4: Nuke the Fridge" The guy lost it. Success ruined him.

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Re: the laser, my personal pet theory (arguably fanwank; YMMV):

Back in the 80's, Encom's R&D department was much like Bell Labs, conducting research in a number of science- and technology-related fields. Some of this research was of a classified nature, underwritten by agencies like DARPA. One of these projects was the digitizing laser. Being able to "beam" objects to distant locations could revolutionize warfare - even if it turned out that living things couldn't be transported safely, the ability to instantaneously send supplies to troops in the field alone would provide an enormous advantage to whoever had the technology. (Even moreso if it was possible to transport things like tanks or field artillery.) Since it was a classified, government-funded research project, the existence of a working digitizing laser never became public knowledge in the Tron world.

By the time of Encom's initial success with the orange, development had already begun on a prototype field version of the Shiva, one that could be set up at a remote location and powered by a portable generator if necessary, rather than requiring an entire room full of support equipment.

When Flynn took the helm of Encom, he was faced with a quandary: What should he do about the digitization project? After his experience inside the system, he was convinced that digitization had the potential to revolutionize society. But if he passed along the findings of Drs. Gibbs and Baines to the government, it would be treated as a "secret weapon" - the technology would be jealously guarded and used exclusively for military purposes.

Flynn decided that the best thing to do was to convince the government that the project was a failure. He would continue exploring the possibilities in secret, using the portable Shiva prototype. Once he was ready, he would reveal the Grid to the world. At that point, it would be too late for anyone to put the genie back into the bottle.

So Flynn secretly enlisted Dr. Gibbs to sabotage the project. (He considered bringing Lora in on the scheme as well, but deliberately sabotaging a military research project is the kind of thing that can earn people long prison sentences if they're caught. Lora had a bright future ahead of her, and Flynn wouldn't have wanted to endanger that. I imagine Gibbs would have agreed.) I'm not sure how Flynn convinced Gibbs to help him, though I can imagine a scenario where the two of them secretly visit Encom's mainframe via digitizing laser, and Gibbs finds himself in agreement with Flynn - this is something amazing, something that needs to be shared with the world.

The project is sabotaged. The government demonstration is a failure. Funding is cut, and the project is shut down. The equipment in the laser lab is dismantled. The portable prototype is listed on the official manifest as having been destroyed as well; Flynn (possibly with Gibbs' help) secretly smuggles it out of the lab and sets up shop in the basement of the arcade. Gibbs takes Flynn's secret to the grave. The research itself is classified top secret and buried alongside other oddball projects from the Cold War-era. Lora never learns the truth, and Flynn regrets having to keep it from her - he hopes she'll understand why he did it once the Grid's revealed to the world, and hopefully forgive him then.

That's about the best explanation I can come up with to rationalize the lack of continued research into digitizing tech (if not at Encom, then somewhere else) in the Tron world, the mini-Shiva in the basement, Flynn not telling Lora about what he's doing, Flynn installing this tech without being a digitization hardware guru himself, etc. Yeah, sabotaging a military research project like that is some heavy stuff, but I can see Flynn being idealistic enough (or enough of a hippie, depending on your POV) to do it. Same with Gibbs, and I can imagine him being the one to tell Flynn not to involve her - at that point in his life, he probably wasn't worried about his future, but he wouldn't want to drag his protege into something that could ruin her promising career.

Maybe I ought to start turning some of this stuff into fanfic.
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Kat Wrote:Aren't those two, like, the same thing? (Idealistic hippie's POV...)

*grins* True enough. (And I'm unabashedly in the 'idealistic hippie' camp myself.)

cirlin Wrote: laphtiya Wrote:"For all the lack of explanation, Lucas kept to the rules established in the original film." Ahhhh this isn't entirely correct, Lucas has stepped on his own toes more times than I care to mention the biggest that comes to mind would be Obi wan saying to Yoda was he any different when he was taught by Yoda then we go straight episode one to find out oh wait he WASN'T trained by Yoda at all. Obi-Wan was trained by Yoda. Yoda did a lot of training of the younger students, before they went to learn under a single master. We see some of this in Ep II. So while we didn't see that period of training, there is no reason to assume it didn't happen. The only problem I can see with that dialogue and how it relates to the prequels, is that Obi-wan says "...the Jedi master who instructed me." where "...a Jedi who instructed me." might fit in a little better, but that's a very minor quibble if you ask me.

That is what I mean, if you look in the expanded universe content that came after the movies you do find out that Yoda taught him when he was young but for the average viewer who doesnt look into all that then it is a clear mistake.

Vaporware Wrote: laphtiya Wrote:"For all the lack of explanation, Lucas kept to the rules established in the original film." Ahhhh this isn't entirely correct, Lucas has stepped on his own toes more times than I care to mention the biggest that comes to mind would be Obi wan saying to Yoda was he any different when he was taught by Yoda then we go straight episode one to find out oh wait he WASN'T trained by Yoda at all. I think however this is due to the nature of how Big that series has become and with other writers from all over having stuff added as Canon by Lucas things are bound to get messy. But yeah I have a strong feeling that we are going to get the "It just works" treatment with Tron. Err.... let's not get into an "original" vs "prequel" inconsistency argument here. The moment Phantom Menace came out, the boat was both on fire *and* sinking. There are no valid consistency arguments between 4-6 and the 1-3. Lucas had some sort of stroke or converted to scientology or similar. 1979 Lucas would have probably slapped the S**T out of 1999 Lucas. He betrayed everything he said he believed about telling a good story, the importance of real effects, etc.

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Whoah. That's... uh... I really don't know. Like? hate? Confused....

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