Pilgrim1099 Wrote: ShadowDragon1 Wrote: I read your entire post. Yes, Flynn is a genius programmer, but he wasn't a "God" of the Grid, and neither is he an omnipotent or omniscient god of engineering science. Neither was Clu. Clu was smart but not that smart. The whole point of Clu is him being stuck on the basic parameters of "perfect the system" that's the Grid. I highly doubt than even in 1000+ cycles Clu would gain any advanced engineering knowlegde or knowledge of *real world* physics. I highly doubt such techinical knowledge was in Flynn's Master Key disc. Flynn is a genius hacker-programmer, he's not bloody Scotty from Star Trek. If Flynn was truely "god of the grid", he could of waved his hands and overthrown Clu and derez his sentries/guards/etc like they were nothing to him if he was. IMO Flynn's dialoge was and is an assumption, and that assumption does not equal absolute facts of would would/could happen. The most rational and plausble threat was Clu entering the Real World as a clone of Flynn, and uploading his forces to the global network of computers and taking control of everything, stockmarkets, communications, banks, etc... and re-purpose them to be under only his control. Actually, if CLU had tried to beam out of the Grid, he would not have materialized due to his nature of being a program while Quorra's DNA was different, having some human compatibility. But even if CLU did materialize, it would cause huge problems. For one, if he walks into ENCOM, imagine what people would say, wondering how Flynn looked so young for that many years and yet, people would question him. His infiltration would'nt work out that easily. And he would not be able to adapt to the real world physics nor culture easily. In fact, he would probably have a human body but won't have his weapons nor be able to fight the police easily if he attracted their attention for causing trouble. The only way for CLU and his forces to infiltrate the real world outside of the isolated Grid is to infect a global network. One can't do it from the basement server nor the phone line, if it was still connected to the phone line port of the server a la modem. Therefore, Sam is indirectly doing CLU a huge favor, now he downloaded the entire Grid onto a smart card and is going to load that Grid into the ENCOM server. And if CLU was still alive or they find a way to bring him back, then he can 'land' into the ENCOM system, thanks to Sam's smart card and start his 'Holy Cleansing' to begin his Church of CLU ( pun intended )

Maybe. Buy who said what Sam did with the smart card. He never said what he was going to do with it.

trekking95 Wrote:He created the gird. He is the "creator" or "god" of it. And being "god' does not mean you can "wave a magic wand" and fix it all. Being Scotty has nothing to do with it, bloody or otherwise. Kevin said how it is the "master key" and "game over" if Clu gets out, how Clu is "taking us with him" and a few other bits like that. So like I said either Flynn and Clu are really dumb or the producers are fools. Or it would all work.

This is the point, neither of them were fools or senile. I keep seeing posts that Flynn was acting Senile when you first saw him, well you guys don't know emotions it seems. When he first sees Sam he is in disbelief that after thousands of his years he is standing infront of his son, then you have him completely embrasing his son and happy to see him. Then when Sam tells him how he got his page you see Flynn realising that A) Clu has managed to communicate to the outside world and B) Clu has completely "Changed the game" and that this something he has been planning for a while now is starting to happen. And lets not forget the shock of all this, would you not be in a little shock after seeing your son who you've not seen in over 1000 years? And the hope of returning home? He was not senile so this cannot be used as an argument for him not knowing what would and wouldn't happen on his own Grid. abortion pills online http://www.kvicksundscupen.se/template/default.aspx?abortion-questions cytotec abortion

Before I begin, let me stress that I may issue forth a barrage of verbal diarrhea, as this whole thread has really stimulated my grey matter on all things TRON. I've seen a lot of good ideas put forth.

With that said, let me give my 2 cents (for whatever value they're worth):

1)ShadowDragon - I pretty much agree with him and with Vaporware. The containers in the MINI(key word)-Shiva laser simply did not have enough molecular STORAGE (another key word) capacity to "render" (pun intended) a whole army of programs into the real world;
2)Clu 2.0 and Flynn's dialogue - I think some are taking it too literally; basically, it assumes that Clu 2.0 may be able to set the seeds for a world take-over via crossing over and damaging the digital framework that dominates our modern world, hence necessitating why Flynn, Quorra and Sam must stop him. I use the word, "assume" because it is not exactly certain just how much of Clu 2's plan, he'd be able to carry out. One thing that puzzled me when watching Legacy was this: If Clu 2 was such a badass, then why didn't he send Recognizers after Quorra and Sam, when they did the illegal exit from the game grid???" Anyway, what exactly would Clu 2.0 need to send his whole army over? The old full-sized Shiva Laser from ENCOM or anything comparable or bigger, in size. I think his plan would be similar to the plans of invaders all throughout history:
a)The invader(s) would first cripple the massive world-wide support (data) network;
b)Then send in troops to cripple the invadees' minds, pscyhes, cultures, knowledge,
and information, THEN
c)Keep said troops in place to keep the invadees in check.
Would Clu 2.0 and his army be able to prevail? Maybe for a minute, since we do live in a technology-dominated world. A well-trained and gifted diverse group of programmer-hackers could take out CLU 2.0 and his forces with a bunch of keystrokes, IMHO;
3)Flynn's Disc - I feel there are 4 things it stores: a)the complete source code for The Grid and all of its inhabitants, weather patterns, conditions and the RULES of the Grid; b)Some biological and molecular data, and the classic c)everything Flynn did or learned, as well as d)any memories that Flynn had, both in the Grid and outside the Grid. To the poster that said, "Clu had access to it all the time" - No, he didn't. According to what we were shown he only had access to it after that one Black Guard used a grappling hook in the EOL Club to snatch the disc off Kevin's back;
4)The sentiment of, "Can't we just enjoy TRON movies without thinking???" Simply put, NO. Why? Based on several interviews with the creators of this whole world that we here (and Tron fans anywhere) love and enjoy, you'll see that Lisberger, MacBird, and Co. created a patchwork - a finely-cooked and seasoned stew, if you will, comprised of societal, technological, religious, spiritual, historical, and scientific metaphors, symbols, and similes and they also threw in some cool visuals and thematic material which gives said stew its taste and nutrition, as well as rules which inform the world of the narrative (as well as scifi itself) within that stew. I think it's safe to say that science fiction simply is, when done right (can't say Mr. Bay did it right - I'm more of a G1 Transformers fan) in all its forms, a thinking person's past-time. It obliges, mandates, and DEMANDS that it be ACTIVELY experienced so that it's core essence be revealed, processed and understood. It also demands that people look outside their reality (hence, the need for the suspension of disbelief) as well, and the same can be said, in varying degrees for horror (the ones that aren't just slash and gash)and fantasy.

In going forward with Uprising and TR3N, I surely hope that Quorra's specialness as an ISO as well as the presence of Dr. Lora Baines-Bradley/Yori are given inclusion, and not just as an afterthought. We'll see. Thank you programs. End of Line.


Best Regards,

Renegade_Program.exe

laphtiya Wrote:This is the point, neither of them were fools or senile. I keep seeing posts that Flynn was acting Senile when you first saw him, well you guys don't know emotions it seems.

You are missing my point of reference. I'm not talking about *after* Kevin sees Sam, I'm talking about before that. He's sitting there is a weird trace like state, saying he dreamed of Tron and that there are no visitors. He's clearly out of touch. His meeting with Sam is emotional, but he is still obviously distant and distracted.

We see Kevin drawn back into concrete reality, but it is a gradual process. As it should be. Initially he doesn't want to do anything, Kevin see Sam as another piece pulled onto the game board (note the references to "Go") then Sam forces Kevin's hand and he moves much closer to reality. By the time that Kevin shows up at the EOL Club, he clearly ready to take limited action, be even after the adrenaline of the elevator, he needs to meditate to make sense of the world. I stated in another thread that is the critical turning point. That is where Kevin completely abandons non-action and chooses to attempt escape. I'm not really saying he's senile, but he's clearly been living in a tangent for quite some time.

Kevin Flynn is not the God of all physics and time in this world. He is a flawed human being, he is - the person that created the world that has been his prison for 1000 cycles. He does not have ultimate insight and knowledge of all things, he is a *mortal* being with limits to his knowledge and power.

He does have some unique powers and access to things that are hidden, but he is not omnipotent and does not know everything there is to know. Each and every word he utters is not the law of the land.

My main point here is that he *could* be wrong.

Bad, unwatchable movies don't lend themselves to discussions and interpretation. Overly artistic films don't give you anything but subjective interpretations and endless discussions.

I think that Tron: Legacy is a good flick precisely because we can have this discussion and hold different views on the same viewing material. abortion pills online abortion pill online purchase cytotec abortion

Vaporware Wrote:Bad, unwatchable movies don't lend themselves to discussions and interpretation. Overly artistic films don't give you anything but subjective interpretations and endless discussions. I think that Tron: Legacy is a good flick precisely because we can have this discussion and hold different views on the same viewing material.

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What was Clu's plan exactly? Clu wanted to invade earth and somehow conquer the world? He knew nothing about that world or what kind of resistance he would face.

tformsopti8 Wrote:What was Clu's plan exactly? Clu wanted to invade earth and somehow conquer the world? He knew nothing about that world or what kind of resistance he would face.

Every conqueror goes into a similar situation not knowiing if they will be met with resistance, if they will win or lose. Was he even thinking that far ahead? As far as he was concerned, he had the man power and the weapons.abortion pills online http://www.kvicksundscupen.se/template/default.aspx?abortion-questions cytotec abortion

That's an interesting point. Castor *did* say that.

So if any "stray" program could have slipped out, then why would Clu have needed the Master Key?

Army or not, why couldn't he have just waltzed right out when Sam came in and the portal was opened - 'except perhaps because Sam came in the "backdoor"?

That idea just raises *more* questions...

Vaporware Wrote:Wow. Very well put. I'll simply say this: thinking people want movies that can be thought about.

Thanks, Vaporwware. I've always been convinced that SciFi films are films for those who think - especially those who can think in a highly creative way.