Oh yeah, I also had a theory on how programs look too...although the base look is off of the programmer who originally wrote the code, attractiveness is based off of how good the program itself is written. Think of it like elegant code. And yes, there is also messy dirty coding too. By the responses from the Ladies Night thread, CLU and Tron are some good looking code

-Brian

Kat Wrote: Gnoop Wrote: LWSrocks Wrote: Gnoop Wrote: Kat Wrote:Seriously, if you wrote a security program that kicks so much ass it can take down the "big bad MCP," you wouldn't want to market it? You'd use it for one job for a few days and never wonder what else it could do?? I mean, I know information security wasn't nearly as big of a deal back then, but... at the very least you'd think Encom would want to hang onto it for a while. Probably wasn't a big deal to Alan early on. Tron's up and running, the MCP is gone. All is well. I'm sure Encom was hanging onto it for a time. It may have run for a number of years before being put out of commission but let's face it. It's a program that was written probably in 1981/82 time frame. That's a long time ago. Either some app written by a vendor has come in and replaced it or a new in-house app was written. In either case, Tron may only exist on the hardware Flynn has in the old arcade. That and maybe some old files Alan's got somewhere, saved for old times sake. Actually, they didn't use him for that long. In fact, the switchover from the ENCOM system to the new grid was almost immediate- according to Tron: Betrayal, the graphic novel. Yes ,but typically in a migration like that, all the applications/data get migrated as well. That would include Tron. If it's just an OS upgrade, that's going to leave everything intact. For a hardware migration, non-OS storage is never touched and would either be moved or copied to the new mainframe. Even with that, it's safe to assume that Tron was eventually replaced by something else on the Encom mainframe while Kevin grabbed a copy of Tron to keep on his personal system. I know, I know, I'm a damn I.T. guy that keeps thinking about this in the real world versus Hollywood. I can't help it sometimes. I thought everyone here was of the mind that he didn't copy Tron though, he moved Tron outright... And sure guys, Sam doesn't have the typical computer geek physique. though I've seen a few who aren't bad-looking. But this, I think, is where we have to bow to "it's a movie." We fangirls are supposed to go wild over him (unfortunately, if you've read the Ladies' Night thread, you'll find most of us tend to be of the attitude "aw Sam, he's cute, I'd love to have him as a friend" but maybe the pre-teen girls are dropping Justin Bieber and Robert Pattinson in favor of Garrett Hedlund, I dunno--at least one can hope). I mean, is it far more likely that Sam-the-programmer would look like Christopher Mintz-Plassw (http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=imghp&biw=988&bih=499&q=Christopher+Mintz-Plasse&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=) or Seth Rogen (http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=imghp&biw=988&bih=499&q=seth+rogen&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=g9g-s1&aql=&oq=)? Yes, but thankfully, Disney is too kind to do that to its female fans, considering the guys get Beau Garrett and Olivia Wilde (because how likely is it, either, that every female program is insanely attractive?).

I'm an IT guy. There's a copy elsewhere or that's a pretty damn poor programmer right there Though this is programmers we're talking about rather than systems administrators so there's that. Still, I haven't known many programmers that didn't keep backups. Plus, there's really no need to move Tron off Encom's mainframe. A copy would do the job. To move, in this scenario, means copying from Encom to Flynn's system then deleting Tron from the Encom mainframe. Not really necessary. Plus it's likely that Alan's got a copy stashed away any way.

And hey, there's some pretty decent, in-shape programmers and other IT staff out there. I work with several ex-military and many of them keep in phenomenal shape. No need to bow to Hollywood on this one. IT guys walking around looking like Jean Claude Van Damme may not be the norm, but it's not that far out of place, either.order abortion pill morning after pill price where to buy abortion pill

Another thing I'll be curious about in a potential Tron 3 is dealing with the ISOs. After all, they're supposed to be the gift to the world. Are Sam and Quorra going to be willing to have Quorra snatched up by the government and/or medical industry for test upon test? Are they just going to keep Quorra's nature their little secret?

Also, what about Quorra's official paperwork? She's got none. No ID, no birth certificate... nothing. Sure you can get it via the government, probably through them finding out she's pretty special and making a unique exception... once they've had her a few years or more and experimented on her in every way they can think of multiple times. But that gets us back to whether or not Sam and Quorra want that.

I'm somewhat guessing (and hoping) that the super-special nature of the ISOs gets explained in some other fashion and their super-special nature ends up being not so special - preferably explaining that the ISOs didn't actually come into being by themselves. To be honest, I wasn't thrilled with the whole ISO deal in the first place. Programs that just come into being? This reminds me of midichlorians in Star Wars.

Personally I wouldn't mind Dillinger Jr. having created the ISOs to push the problems with Clu, lettting Clu do the dirty work of getting rid of Kevin. After all, bad guys are known for their overly complicated, easily escapable situations. This can be Ed Jr's for Kevin Flynn. The basic ISO code is then used for future programs which the Good Guys will encounter in Tron 3.

Outside of that, Dillinger Jr. talking about the enhanced security of the new Encom OS got me thinking.... MCP. Sounds like Jr. is heading in that direction. I'm wondering if we'll end up with a new MCP as well.

We'll let Sam get Dad and Tron back... but as that's finished, Ed upgrades the OS to Encom OS 13 (with even more new AND improved security features than 12!) and everything goes to hell pretty quickly with the good guys now having to deal with the new MCP plus the MCPs new ISO security force.order abortion pill morning after pill price where to buy abortion pill

Sam is like the Bruce Wayne of the Tron world, he can make Quorra a fake ID.on line abortion pill misoprostol dose abortion medical abortion pill online

Hmmm. Tough to break this out but I'll do what I can.

LWSrocks Wrote: Gnoop Wrote:Another thing I'll be curious about in a potential Tron 3 is dealing with the ISOs. After all, they're supposed to be the gift to the world. Are Sam and Quorra going to be willing to have Quorra snatched up by the government and/or medical industry for test upon test? Are they just going to keep Quorra's nature their little secret? Willing? Who would be willing to be snatched up by the government for testing?

Well, I don't think the word "willing" entered my thoughts. Once the government found out, she'd be going whether she wanted to or not

Also, what about Quorra's official paperwork? She's got none. No ID, no birth certificate... nothing. Sure you can get it via the government, probably through them finding out she's pretty special and making a unique exception... once they've had her a few years or more and experimented on her in every way they can think of multiple times. But that gets us back to whether or not Sam and Quorra want that. I think Sam is going to keep Quorra's entire existence low-key so that nobody FINDS OUT she has no paperwork or record of existence.

Low-key is what I'm thinking as well. I can see them playing this off in some small manner, though. Quorra getting pulled over while driving herself and Sam somewhere... at rather high speeds.

I'm somewhat guessing (and hoping) that the super-special nature of the ISOs gets explained in some other fashion and their super-special nature ends up being not so special - preferably explaining that the ISOs didn't actually come into being by themselves. To be honest, I wasn't thrilled with the whole ISO deal in the first place. Programs that just come into being? This reminds me of midichlorians in Star Wars. I think that's a pretty good idea, but for other people that would mean "Wait, so all this build up for the ISOs meant NOTHING? They're not special at all?" Even though it's already been shown in the movie WHY they're special- they have a digital genetic code.

True, but it could simply be a buildup on Kevin Flynn's part led by misinformation. The digital genetic code coming about from new coding techniques or such created by the hacker.

Personally I wouldn't mind Dillinger Jr. having created the ISOs to push the problems with Clu, lettting Clu do the dirty work of getting rid of Kevin. After all, bad guys are known for their overly complicated, easily escapable situations. This can be Ed Jr's for Kevin Flynn. The basic ISO code is then used for future programs which the Good Guys will encounter in Tron 3. How would Dillinjunior know about the grid? Unless he'd happened to wander into the old arcade after getting keys mysteriously from Alan, and found the grid the exact same way Sam did? Sorry, but that would just be too stupid.

I'm going to have to rethink Dilljr. Dillinger Sr. was certainly older but how old do we have Jr. at? Roughly Sam's age or some amount older? Sam was 7 at the time of his father's disappearance. If Dilljr was in his late teens or early 20's, I could see it. That seems to put him older than he's presented in the movie.

Well, if we went with the Dilljr route, my guess would be that Flynn was followed once people started noticing that Kevin was acting less like himself. From there it's probably not all that difficult to get a glimpse of where he's going. Getting in via a set of keys and a non-secured secret passage wouldn't take much. From there it's simply a matter of hacking in once Flynn's gone, then clearing any history of it.

I'm not saying this is the way to go... but it was a thought that crossed my mind as for what do with the ISOs. Whatever they do, I'm still hoping that it's discovered that the ISOs aren't really what Kevin thought they were.

Outside of that, Dillinger Jr. talking about the enhanced security of the new Encom OS got me thinking.... MCP. Sounds like Jr. is heading in that direction. I'm wondering if we'll end up with a new MCP as well. Oh, I think we'll end up with a new MCP. Definitely. Do I want this to happen? HELL no. I want a new villain, that's what I want, not a recycled red cylinder from the 80's.

What may happen is another Star Wars or Indiana Jones 3rd movie situation with Tron - where it has a lot more resemblance to the first than the 2nd did. Granted, the 2nd didn't stray all that far from the first (cocky 20-something sucked into the computer, trying to escape). What would be nice is if the new security is, as you said, not the MCP but something else. Or at least change the MCP into something else to make it more interesting.

We'll let Sam get Dad and Tron back... but as that's finished, Ed upgrades the OS to Encom OS 13 (with even more new AND improved security features than 12!) and everything goes to hell pretty quickly with the good guys now having to deal with the new MCP plus the MCPs new ISO security force. I think Quorra will get tired of the real world and want to go back to the grid, so Sam will plug his chip into the ENCOM server so that they could go back. Sam, meanwhile, has plans to find his dad's disk and use it to ressurect him as a normal program. Meanwhile, Dillinjunior uploads the new OS to the ENCOM servers and now there is- A NEW VILLAIN- who represents the security program on the OS. The security program now has so much power that he goes insane and begins to become corrupted and wants to become not JUST a security program- but a System Administrator. He's already got so much power, but that power makes him crave more. COMMENTS IS BOLDED!

Quorra wanting to go back into the grid does seem likely. Sam will end up tying their vacation in with fixing up dad for re-transport into the real world. Not sure he'd be rebuilt as purely a program though. I'd guess they would also try to get Tron back up and running as a guardian of the grid.

I do like the new villain idea for this new security villain better than MCP 2.0. I think as long as it's not the big red cylinder again like the original MCP, we'll probably be happier even if it gets named MCP (assuming they don't screw that up). Though I figure the MCP name may be more of a nickname rather than official use. That way no one knows until they're in the system and realize it's the new MCP.order abortion pill http://unclejohnsprojects.com/template/default.aspx?morning-after-pill-price where to buy abortion pillwhere to buy abortion pill ordering abortion pills to be shipped to house buy abortion pill online

EXODUS Wrote: Gnoop Wrote: Personally I wouldn't mind Dillinger Jr. having created the ISOs to push the problems with Clu, lettting Clu do the dirty work of getting rid of Kevin. After all, bad guys are known for their overly complicated, easily escapable situations. This can be Ed Jr's for Kevin Flynn. The basic ISO code is then used for future programs which the Good Guys will encounter in Tron 3. Outside of that, Dillinger Jr. talking about the enhanced security of the new Encom OS got me thinking.... MCP. Sounds like Jr. is heading in that direction. I'm wondering if we'll end up with a new MCP as well. I Thought the Grid was self-contained (and that nobody new about it for the last 20 years)? :-S Given the way they came into existance in that system, I't would be interesting to see if exactly the same thing happens in other computor systems has well?

The Grid is self contained. That doesn't mean someone couldn't follow Flynn to the arcade and see what was going on. After all, it's not as if the arcade were that secure. It's a standard key lock and a simple physical concealment of his lab. Once there you still have to somehow hack into the system but given enough time with physical access, that's possible to do for the right person and/or program(s). After all, Kevin got into Encom's mainframe remotely as well as locally. Once you had access, it's simply a matter of uploading code.

That ISOs haven't come into being in other systems leads me to believe that either it was Flynn that unknowingly created them, still not fully used to his user powers within the system or they were created by someone or something else. Something doesn't come from nothing. It comes from... something else at a minimum. It's simply a lack of knowledge that makes it seem like they came from nothing.

The Isos evovled from the digital "primordial soup" that is the Sea of Simulation. Flynn incoporated genetic algorythms into The Grid to give it the potential to grow and change to a certain degree. Clu did all he could to alter that, to direct things to be orderly and "perfect" only as he interpruted "perfect" to be.

In the Sea of Simulation, the "soup" of random bits and bytes, along with the genetic algorythms inherent to the system resulted in the development/evolution of the Isos from the Sea of Simulation. They didn't literally come from "nothing". Flynn was speaking figuratively when he was refering to their manifestation. "the conditions were right". Just as on Earth, when the conditions were right, life evovled from the primordial soup (amino acids forming protien strains, which formed into single cell organisms, and in time formed multi-celled organisms.)abortion pills online abortion questions cytotec abortion

ShadowDragon1 Wrote:The Isos evovled from the digital "primordial soup" that is the Sea of Simulation. Flynn incoporated genetic algorythms into The Grid to give it the potential to grow and change to a certain degree. Clu did all he could to alter that, to direct things to be orderly and "perfect" only as he interpruted "perfect" to be. In the Sea of Simulation, the "soup" of random bits and bytes, along with the genetic algorythms inherent to the system resulted in the development/evolution of the Isos from the Sea of Simulation. They didn't literally come from "nothing". Flynn was speaking figuratively when he was refering to their manifestation. "the conditions were right". Just as on Earth, when the conditions were right, life evovled from the primordial soup (amino acids forming protien strains, which formed into single cell organisms, and in time formed multi-celled organisms.)

Yeah but I don't buy the Sea either so I'm still not a fan of the concept of the ISOs. They just seem to reek of writers and producers assuming the public was too stupid to be able to handle the non-ISO benefits of the Grid that Flynn had already outlined in his speech quip from t.v. or Flynn and Clu diverging on "perfect system" ideas without the ISOs.

Like I've said, though. I'm an I.T. guy so I live in the world of systems administration and bits of code. Code doesn't just come up from the basic system functions in a Sea of Simulation. The ISOs would still have to be user-created unless we're back to AI and, at least as far as we're aware, no such thing happened. There wouldn't be any "right" conditions in a system. You're starting with man made hardware, the system, which presents limitations by itself. Organic growth and development required for evolution is out the window pretty quickly. Such a thing occurring in a system would be detectable either in processes running, memory usage, or disk space usage, all of which can be tracked.

Now we could get into some discussions of advanced AI programs writing more but that's getting along the lines of Matrix. I could see that. It's the evolution from the Sea that's the shaky thing.

Gnoop Wrote:Yeah but I don't buy the Sea either so I'm still not a fan of the concept of the ISOs. They just seem to reek of writers and producers assuming the public was too stupid to be able to handle the non-ISO benefits of the Grid that Flynn had already outlined in his speech quip from t.v. or Flynn and Clu diverging on "perfect system" ideas without the ISOs. Like I've said, though. I'm an I.T. guy so I live in the world of systems administration and bits of code. Code doesn't just come up from the basic system functions in a Sea of Simulation. The ISOs would still have to be user-created unless we're back to AI and, at least as far as we're aware, no such thing happened. There wouldn't be any "right" conditions in a system. You're starting with man made hardware, the system, which presents limitations by itself. Organic growth and development required for evolution is out the window pretty quickly. Such a thing occurring in a system would be detectable either in processes running, memory usage, or disk space usage, all of which can be tracked. Now we could get into some discussions of advanced AI programs writing more but that's getting along the lines of Matrix. I could see that. It's the evolution from the Sea that's the shaky thing.

I've just given up on seeing the Grid as resembling a real computer system in any way. T:L is not like the original in which you could see it as possibly being plausible. The Grid has weather, too, after all, which also just totally bakes my noodle.

Kat Wrote: Gnoop Wrote:Yeah but I don't buy the Sea either so I'm still not a fan of the concept of the ISOs. They just seem to reek of writers and producers assuming the public was too stupid to be able to handle the non-ISO benefits of the Grid that Flynn had already outlined in his speech quip from t.v. or Flynn and Clu diverging on "perfect system" ideas without the ISOs. Like I've said, though. I'm an I.T. guy so I live in the world of systems administration and bits of code. Code doesn't just come up from the basic system functions in a Sea of Simulation. The ISOs would still have to be user-created unless we're back to AI and, at least as far as we're aware, no such thing happened. There wouldn't be any "right" conditions in a system. You're starting with man made hardware, the system, which presents limitations by itself. Organic growth and development required for evolution is out the window pretty quickly. Such a thing occurring in a system would be detectable either in processes running, memory usage, or disk space usage, all of which can be tracked. Now we could get into some discussions of advanced AI programs writing more but that's getting along the lines of Matrix. I could see that. It's the evolution from the Sea that's the shaky thing. I've just given up on seeing the Grid as resembling a real computer system in any way. T:L is not like the original in which you could see it as possibly being plausible. The Grid has weather, too, after all, which also just totally bakes my noodle.

Touche. I think some/many/most of us would have been better at coming up with a new Tron movie... or at least taking what was presented and smacking it around a bit. I suppose it will be interesting to see what they do with a Tron 3. I'm still hoping for a downplay or altering of the ISOs, though Things Kevin Flynn didn't know about that make the ISOs a bit less (or a lot less) special.

I can live with the weather. Now if they could just add some more color in. Yeesh!