I made this thread for intelligent discussion, not for fangirling, which is to be reserved for the Ladies' Night thread. (I mostly say this for myself)

Was he really derezzed?
We only saw the club explode. There was a noticable amount of time between Clu placing the bombs and the actual explosion.

Did he have a relationship with Quorra?
He helped the Isos at one point. He seemed troubled when Sam mentioned her, and Gem looked jealous.

He fought alongside the Isos. Why did he stop and join Clu's side? What happened?

Hrm. I didn't get "relationship" vibe, though I definitely think that yes, he and Quorra knew each other once. Wonder if we'll ever get that backstory...

And yes, be interesting to find out why he turned too. My guess is that Clu promised him something (something he obviously didn't want to deliver if he killed C/Z). Or perhaps Clu somehow convinced him that Flynn was bad? Or maybe that something had happened to Flynn and Clu expected Flynn's son to come and try to do something dastardly? Or maybe he simply didn't want Sam to find Flynn because he didn't want Flynn coming out of hiding and putting himself in danger (or maybe he WANTED Flynn coming out of hiding to rescue Sam and, presumably, the rest of the Grid)?

Or...maybe...there was some plan behind it that we'll learn about later (which may or may not have gone wrong, depending on whether the plan hinged on C/Z still being alive after giving up Sam, which it may well have considering how nervous he seems that Clu might not find him necessary once he has what C/Z can provide...maybe C/Z thought it would propel him to a position of power he could exploit, like a double agent, or perhaps he planned to somehow contact Sam later and use Sam as a pair of eyes/ears on the inside)

Oh, the possibilities.

Notice how he acts quite outrageous in the club, but when he gets Sam upstairs he seems to sort of drop the act and is a lot more serious, which I interpreted as being more true to his personality and he just puts on a persona (so the next question is, for what reason, besides the fact that Castor is obviously a front to try to keep the "real" Zuse out of the public eye and giving Castor a totally different personality is obviously desirable). So I wonder which personailty was the prevalent one "back in the day." I'm willing to bet the serious one, for sure.

(And on that note, perhaps it really is just that he got burnt out being the good guy and fighting the evil that never seems to actually be defeated, and he figured "oh, what the hell, I'm tired of being serious and fighting for what seems a lost cause...might as well just be jolly and evil." Come on, you can't tell me you all don't sometimes want to just say "F- it" and become the person who cuts in the grocery line and reaps all the rewards rather than the good person who patiently waits and gets screwed every time. I'm damn tired of being good sometimes and maybe C/Z was too.)where to buy abortion pill ordering abortion pills to be shipped to house buy abortion pill onlineabortion pills online abortion pill online purchase cytotec abortion

I've read several fan fictions about Zuse when he was fighting against Clu, and they all have him tortured in order for Clu to get information about where he was helping the Isos escape to. I think it's a pretty reasonable explanation. He wouldn't want to be the same person that lead to an experience like that and so he re-invented himself. It also explains him being kind of....crazy. Like he was tortured to the point of madness.

Omg, that's sad to think about :'(

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Kat Wrote:... And yes, be interesting to find out why he turned too. My guess is that Clu promised him something (something he obviously didn't want to deliver if he killed C/Z). Or perhaps Clu somehow convinced him that Flynn was bad? Or maybe that something had happened to Flynn and Clu expected Flynn's son to come and try to do something dastardly? Or maybe he simply didn't want Sam to find Flynn because he didn't want Flynn coming out of hiding and putting himself in danger (or maybe he WANTED Flynn coming out of hiding to rescue Sam and, presumably, the rest of the Grid)? ....

They do say what it is that Zuse expected in return from CLU - Control of the city. Zuse says it himself. Obviously CLU did not want to relinquish that. Also, Zuse was nervous because of CLU being in the position of power. Even though he had what he wanted, he didn't have leverage over him in that situation. Which is why he tried to appeal to CLU's sense of fairness and just compensation. He was even to the point of looking for validation, he wants CLU to assure him that everything is good between them. And there is obviously history from back when he used to openly oppose CLU's reign.

And I agree that Gem looked jealous by the mention of Quorra's name. As for Zuse, I think the emotion he was expressing was regret or hesitation. Your about to betray someone and then they remind you of a friend that you had when you were a different person, it makes you flinch a bit. And then of course the reason he turned was sort of eluded to, not just burnt out on being the good guy but at some point you get the feeling that your cause is not worth it, it's costing you too much. You feel betrayed for the suffering you endure and in turn you betray them.

As Zuse says "I use the believe in the Users once" - he's obviously turned a corner. Then he says " The game has changed, son of Flynn" - now it sounds like he's justifying his actions, the game has changed and so has he, he has to adapt for survival. As he said before, "playing all the angles"...it's about survival. And then of course the crescendo is his hysterical "Behold, the son of our MAKER!!!" He actually has come to resent the User Flynn and now actively despises him.

Zuse is such a fascinating character to me, I hope he is not dead because I'd love to see him explored in greater detail and learn more about what made him the program he has become.

I also wondered if Castor was an ISO.

As for him escaping the blast, it does seem out of character for him to allow himself to be so exposed to Clu w/o there being some kind of literally backup plan.

Michael Sheen's performance almost steals the show, though. He seems like he had a lot of fun being manic-crazy. And he did a good job emoting, when it came time for Castor to display his own distrust and hatred of users.

I'm probably reading into this too much, but I noticed this line after watching Legacy today. He mentions how the portal is past the outlands and the Sea of Simulation. He says "Your father didn't want any programs slipping out accidently, now did he?

I don't know, but it kind of sounds like he doesn't want to be on The Grid anymore. I don't blame him.

fluffycow333 Wrote:I'm probably reading into this too much, but I noticed this line after watching Legacy today. He mentions how the portal is past the outlands and the Sea of Simulation. He says "Your father didn't want any programs slipping out accidently, now did he? I don't know, but it kind of sounds like he doesn't want to be on The Grid anymore. I don't blame him.

oh yes! LIke he resents Flynn's control or something.order abortion pill abortion pill buy online where to buy abortion pillwhere to buy abortion pill ordering abortion pills to be shipped to house buy abortion pill online

What exactly is it that Quorra gives Sam back at the safehouse, anyway? "this is his sector," she says, and hands Sam that disc-looking-thing. What is it? A map? Some sort of "secret handshake" security type thing that proves that the person who has it is on C/Z's side? I wasn't really clear on that.

fluffycow333 Wrote: Kat Wrote:What exactly is it that Quorra gives Sam back at the safehouse, anyway? "this is his sector," she says, and hands Sam that disc-looking-thing. What is it? A map? Some sort of "secret handshake" security type thing that proves that the person who has it is on C/Z's side? I wasn't really clear on that. I thought it was like an End of Line business card with his "address".

That's what I thought too. But then I wondered if it has some sort of tracking chip in it, because Quorra says "he'll find you" and it's not like the "he'll find you" thing that most movies use, in which Sam would be asking around for C/Z and not finding anything until C/Z or someone like Gem shows up on his own time...as soon as he arrives in the city, Gem is right there to grab him, which makes me wonder if it contained some way for C/Z to know.

Kat Wrote: fluffycow333 Wrote: Kat Wrote:What exactly is it that Quorra gives Sam back at the safehouse, anyway? "this is his sector," she says, and hands Sam that disc-looking-thing. What is it? A map? Some sort of "secret handshake" security type thing that proves that the person who has it is on C/Z's side? I wasn't really clear on that. I thought it was like an End of Line business card with his "address". That's what I thought too. But then I wondered if it has some sort of tracking chip in it, because Quorra says "he'll find you" and it's not like the "he'll find you" thing that most movies use, in which Sam would be asking around for C/Z and not finding anything until C/Z or someone like Gem shows up on his own time...as soon as he arrives in the city, Gem is right there to grab him, which makes me wonder if it contained some way for C/Z to know.

That sounds possible. But now, how did Gem get in in this? I don't think Zuse is one to trust many people. She knows that Castor and Zuse are the same person obviously.