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 The knives will be out for me on this one...


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Traahn
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RE: The knives will be out for me on this one...

on Sunday, March, 20, 2011 2:46 AM
Hehe, slowly I learn that you just have a more impolite way with words than some but you maybe don't realize or are oblivious to the lack of tact and so it's no big deal. Cool, getting closer to understanding the once evil, ShadowDragon1!

It's time I leveled with you. I'm what you guys call a User


I'm getting out of here right now, and you guys are invited. -----^
 
ShadowDragon1
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Posts: 2,056
RE: The knives will be out for me on this one...

on Sunday, March, 20, 2011 2:50 AM
I don't mean to seem impolite or show any lack of tact.

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"The film is about finding human connection in an increasingly digital world." - Joseph Kosinski

 
Traahn
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Posts: 3,301
RE: The knives will be out for me on this one...

on Sunday, March, 20, 2011 2:52 AM
It's my fault. I programmed you to want too much.



I'm getting out of here right now, and you guys are invited. -----^
 
ShadowDragon1
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Posts: 2,056
RE: The knives will be out for me on this one...

on Sunday, March, 20, 2011 3:02 AM
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"The film is about finding human connection in an increasingly digital world." - Joseph Kosinski

 
Traahn
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Posts: 3,301
RE: The knives will be out for me on this one...

on Sunday, March, 20, 2011 3:03 AM
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I'm getting out of here right now, and you guys are invited. -----^
 
ShadowDragon1
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Posts: 2,056
RE: The knives will be out for me on this one...

on Sunday, March, 20, 2011 3:09 AM
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"The film is about finding human connection in an increasingly digital world." - Joseph Kosinski

 
Darth Tronage
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Posts: 253
RE: The knives will be out for me on this one...

on Sunday, March, 20, 2011 3:13 AM
LOL! Shadow Dragon still defending this film to the death. He must be friends with someone involved in the film or own some stock. It was an alright film. For me, the film on it's own was a 5 or 6 out of 10. Now as a Tron sequel, it's a 2 or 3 out of 10. The Lost writers took the movie in exactly the direction I hoped they wouldn't. It bummed me out.

If the sequel hints at being anything like this movie I'll just skip it and watch the original Tron and play Tron 2.0 again. Man, I love the feel of those two, and this movie just was not it. Just felt like it was missing a soul.

I enjoyed Transformers many more times than this.

Shadow Dragon, you may now commence with the face palm. (I always picture Rinzler doing it and not Worf because of your avatar).

Jet Lives!
 
Traahn
User

Posts: 3,301
RE: The knives will be out for me on this one...

on Sunday, March, 20, 2011 3:36 AM
If u only saw it once?, I recommend seeing it one more time. I bet you enjoy it more the 2nd time. I prefer the vibe of Tron and Tron 2.0 more, too, but T:L is nice in it's own (yet somewhat Tron) way.

PS: I think you do deserve an infamous SD1 facepalm for that post. Perhaps a Big Lebowski one. Be prepared!




I'm getting out of here right now, and you guys are invited. -----^
 
ShadowDragon1
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Posts: 2,056
RE: The knives will be out for me on this one...

on Sunday, March, 20, 2011 3:40 AM
Many, many die-hard Tron fans I know on Unifiction and Facebook, some of which are former, long time members of this site strongly disagree with you Darth Tronage.

Saying Bay's Tranformers was more enjoyable than Tron Legacy. I do hope that was a joke/sarcasm.... :/

As as sequel to Tron, Tron Legacy it's a *good* sequel, and a pretty good movie, many rank the movie between an 8 and a 9. It's not perfect, I wasn't saying it is.

My intention is not to blindly defend the movie. I'm just expressing my views and presenting information to counter some of the talking points people have brought up.

In my view the quality of the film's storyline, characters and it's visual design speak for themselves. Which IMO and others I know, those rate fairly high in their view and in my view as well.

I don't work for Disney. I wish I did, I could use a good, steady paycheck.
I'm just Tron fan that strongly feels that some of the criticisms T:L has gotten are either way off-base or blown way out of proportion.



"The film is about finding human connection in an increasingly digital world." - Joseph Kosinski

 
Traahn
User

Posts: 3,301
RE: The knives will be out for me on this one...

on Sunday, March, 20, 2011 3:44 AM
I kinda was hoping for a facepalm

On the other side of the screen it all looks so easy!order abortion pill abortion pill buy online where to buy abortion pill


I'm getting out of here right now, and you guys are invited. -----^
 
ShadowDragon1
User

Posts: 2,056
RE: The knives will be out for me on this one...

on Sunday, March, 20, 2011 3:46 AM
It's 1:46 am. I'm too tired to post another face palm pic.

"The film is about finding human connection in an increasingly digital world." - Joseph Kosinski

 
Darth Tronage
User

Posts: 253
RE: The knives will be out for me on this one...

on Sunday, March, 20, 2011 4:44 AM
"It's 1:46 am. I'm too tired to post another face palm pic."

LOL.

I definitely wasn't speaking for the masses. It's just my personal impression of the movie. I'm sure many others enjoyed it more. But, a lot of my concerns previous to the film were reinforced after seeing it.

With the exception of Clu. I was really impressed with his believability. I didn't think of him as a CG character during the film. I think, seeing him in 3D added that much more realism to him.

But the story and the concept behind Tron Legacy and the symbolism I had a real problem with. Not that it was a poorly written story, but again the direction they took it. I will say though, many times better than Lost. Lost's story was, well... lost.

When I was a kid my dad had a record of Star Wars that I would sneak off to play on my little kid record player. I use to look at the pictures in the album and the poster while listening to the album. I would dream of all the adventures these characters would go on. Then I saw the movie on VHS and was blown away.

The same was for Tron. The images and music sparked my imagination long before I saw the world in the film. I completely got the idea of a virtual world that could be created and manipulated. With virtual people running around.

Then came Tron 2.0. It was all that I imagined in my head that the world of Tron would be. The closest thing to the world of Tron being a real interactive world, that one could get. The world was full of color and alive. And it kept all of the core Tron elements visually. The only thing I was disappointed about was no Tron and no Flynn. But, Jet was close enough to being Flynn. Kind of like Sam.

But Tron Legacy didn't spark anything at all.The Grid was not a world I wanted to run around in. It felt flat visually. I get more visual excitement staring at a neon light. And the story didn't get me excited about where we can take computers and technology. I think Tron 2.0 was more relevant in where the future is heading than Legacy. I passed on buying Tron Evolution. The world and game play were just unappealing. There's only a few button smashers that I enjoy. And most of them are classics.

At any rate, it just didn't appeal to me and as a Tron sequel, I was disappointed. But for you and others, I'm sure it was great.

Jet Lives!
 
Pilgrim1099
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Posts: 606
RE: The knives will be out for me on this one...

on Sunday, March, 20, 2011 10:06 AM
ShadowDragon1 Wrote: Many, many die-hard Tron fans I know on Unifiction and Facebook, some of which are former, long time members of this site strongly disagree with you Darth Tronage.

Saying Bay's Tranformers was more enjoyable than Tron Legacy. I do hope that was a joke/sarcasm.... :/

As as sequel to Tron, Tron Legacy it's a *good* sequel, and a pretty good movie, many rank the movie between an 8 and a 9. It's not perfect, I wasn't saying it is.

My intention is not to blindly defend the movie. I'm just expressing my views and presenting information to counter some of the talking points people have brought up.

In my view the quality of the film's storyline, characters and it's visual design speak for themselves. Which IMO and others I know, those rate fairly high in their view and in my view as well.

I don't work for Disney. I wish I did, I could use a good, steady paycheck.
I'm just Tron fan that strongly feels that some of the criticisms T:L has gotten are either way off-base or blown way out of proportion.


ShadowDragon,

It's okay to be a fan of TRON and Legacy. Nothing wrong with that. I'm one of those who saw the original in 1982 and will always love the Tron franchise. But, the reason I made the reply to the other guy and similar postings about the flaws of Legacy is because I'm speaking for myself as an artist and writer. Plus, I'm hard of hearing and tend to rely on what I'm seeing, despite the fact I love Daft Punk's music.

I view things differently with a critical eye. It's kind of difficult to 'turn off' the critical eye when you're an artist doing game design, storyboarding, or comics, or anything related to sequential story-telling and multi-media. I can try to be neutral about it, but at the end of the day, my critical mind will start picking things apart.

It's part of my job to critique myself or others (not criticize, big difference). Am I being a bit critical about the writers' part? Yes, I am. Everything starts with a strong script. Without a strongly written script, the movie falls apart unless they luck out with a talented director or actor to 'sell' it. It is the foundation that is most important.

I did'nt certainly say Legacy was a bad movie. It is'nt. It was beautifully shot. Joseph Kosinski has an excellent eye for cinematography. There were some shots that I thought were 'Kubrickian' in style (as in Stanley Kubrick). It's just that I have experience in picking up flaws and influences. A lot of the elements of Legacy were well done regarding architecture, costumes, light cycles, the FX, and so on.

Clu was wonderful and this part angers me a bit where they wasted so much time and money in developing a fully realized digital counter-part of Jeff Bridges, only to be 'killed off' in the end. I understand they're trying to tell a story here in mythological levels. I get that perfectly clear. I'm a fan of Greek, Roman, Norse and other medieval mythological stories. Bill Moyers and Joseph Campbell are two excellent authors who wrote about mythology, by the way.

But, back on topic, there was simply NO logic in 'derezzing' Clu 2. After all, this is the second time in a row they killed him off, do you realize? Clu 2.0 had huge potential for further character development. Clu is one of my favorite Tron characters of all time, next to Flynn and 'The Man' himself with two discs.

The Marvel comic special with Tron Legacy was somewhat of an editorial mess because the ISO back story differed from the film version. There was definitely a lack of communication between Disney and Marvel. Somewhere, somebody screwed up in the editing department for the Marvel comic version.

I can see their point in saying Flynn is the 'creator' and is absorbing Clu 2 back into him because he loved Clu like a 'son'. He could'nt bear to hurt him and wanted to do right. Yes, what he created, he can also destroy or re-integrate back with. I can see why Flynn could'nt do this years ago all because Clu was surrounded by too many programs protecting him, including Rinzler who would wipe the floor with Kevin Flynn in a split second. The only hope Kevin would have is his 'god like' power to slow down the digital clock and simply walk past all of them and then say "Hi Clu. Time to come home to Daddy" and absorb him. See my point?

But he did'nt do that. I think Flynn was trying to 'teach' Clu a lesson in responsiblity, autonomy and independence rather than giving him a spanking, hoping he would turn around and say "Okay, I screwed up". That did'nt happen. Clu 2 did'nt learn that lesson and NO ONE was around to show him the error of his ways all those years, or cycles.

Programs have to be corrected to be guided back to the proper direction and function. What I was hoping for is have Dillinger Senior hiding in Flynn's Grid all those years, manipulating the system to his benefit, pulling Clu's strings. That would've been more intense. That would've explained the '2 users' line on Dillinger's touchscreen computer in Flynn's basement lab where Sam walks in and wipes off. Clu 2 is not a User, but he is close to that level since he is a digital clone of Kevin Flynn.

And I think that was the point of the film in 'What if Kevin Flynn became corrupt?" and this film explored that element, but I don't think it was enough. I wanted to see more Clu going about his administrative business.

If you take a look at the Star Wars films, how much of Darth Vader did we see going about his business, obeying and giving orders, plotting, etc?

In fact, I don't think a lot of people realize that the reason Clu 2 can't evolve higher and is stuck in his capacity is due to the hardware limitation. That's like putting Photoshop CS2 or higher into a 10 year old Mac with less than 1 GB of RAM. Photoshop is one of the most RAM hungry programs out there and yet I see Clu 2 as a program that got too big and bloated for the hardware to handle him. He had nowhere to go but up, or out, to evolve and grow. The only way Clu 2 could evolve was be put into a much larger Grid with advanced specs. If Clu is a program himself, then how much RAM did Flynn's computer have, really?

I can only imagine. It's a fantasy tale. My feeling is that Tron Legacy is the equivalent to "Empire Strikes Back" that a hero is taken away by sacrifice. What happened in Return of the Jedi? Han got rescued. Do I smell what they may do on Tron 3 similar to Jedi? Most likely.

And here's a thought to consider. If Clu 2 is as smart, devious and brilliant as Kevin Flynn, don't you think he would be this smart enough to make back-up copies of himself? If Flynn can clone himself digitally, can a program do it as well? Clu 2 has Adminstrator status, so he can repurpose programs, but copy himself, perhaps?

I'm sure the writers are probably going to see my post and go "Well, great idea! Let's use that since we did'nt THINK of that before!".

If they do that, Clu 2 has to REDEEM himself in Tron 3 back to the side of the angels. After all, if he SEES the new MCP (if this is what they may do), his eyes will twitch, his fingers will itch for his disc, his teeth will grind and he will start to hate that guy. The power of Clu Fu, indeed!

Let me get to the point about the LOST writers. I never saw the show they wrote, but have heard they made quite a mess. The producers even fired Jeph Loeb from the show, whom happens to be a writer for Marvel comics. I won't go there because I'm not a big fan of his recent work at Marvel in the last several years.

I managed to find a link to the LOST writers' inteview which you can copy and paste:

http://blog.moviefone.com/2010/12/21/tron-legacy-screenwriters-interview/

Those guys can go ahead and write Tron: UPRISING animated series and the formula will be similar to Star Wars : Clone Wars. It's a given. No mysteries there. After all, they love Stars Wars and so do we all. But, I really don't think it's wise for Disney to put them back on for Tron 3.

Now I know this is a long post but this is how I see things. Tron: Legacy was great fun to watch. It really is. But I can see gaps of pacing which I call 'beats'. Beats are very important to pacing in story-telling in comics, film and what not. Or if you want to call it rhythm, that's fine. It's like listening to music that is out of sync (despite Daft Punk's great album).

Want a good example? Go back to the scene where Sammy gets digitized for the first time. Yes, I know the new Shiva is supposed to be a faster and more powerful model to speed up the process than 'travelling' through the digital LSD trip that we all know and loved in the first film. I agree with the assessment that they should've showed that sequence but I heard they did'nt have time to squeeze it in (one reason why Disney needs to lay off the pressure).

Anyway, we get a medium close up shot of Sam on the computer, and then cut to his back showing the laser effect. Then we cut to the medium close up again of him on the desk, looking bewildered in a 'what the hell?' look. Then, there's a drastic cut of Sam running out the doors of the Grid version of Flynn's Arcade.

What's wrong with the picture? Simple. They did not show Sam running through the interior of Flynn's Arcade to the outside. Instead of going A, B and to C, they went from A to C directly. What did Flynn's Arcade look like inside the Grid version?

They never show that. They should've since this would've been the first sign of bewilderment AND the fact Sam is NOT in a normal place. Frightened by the sight that would've looked empty inside or too sterile, he runs out the doors. They should have use a 'tracking shot' to follow him outside and then revolve the camera around him as he looks around in confusion and end the shot with a worm's eye view of Sam looking up at the Flynn's Arcade sign, in the exact SAME MANNER he did as he rode his bike to the 'real world' version.

And then a recognizer shines a light on him. How hard was that to pull off?

Or how about the scene with Clu and his henchmen going from his administrative office to Kevin's hideout. But they never show those guys actually entering the hideout, looking for a door to get in. So, they chose the easy way using Rinzler as 'hound dog' to track footsteps to the trap door. They should've shown him doing that, pointing the foot steps to Clu towards the door as he goes "Ah, HA! So that's where he hides" with a cocky smirk.

And then we can cut to the medium shot of them rising through the elevator lift. But no, they went from A to C to appease to the 'ADHD'/'I don't have patience for detailed shots'/'I want my iPad2 NOW!' crowd. Go on. Take another look. You'll see the missing gap.

So really, who's at fault for the missing gaps? The editor who cut the scenes out OR was it the shooting script that jumped from one scene to another written by none other than the LOST boys? Kosinksi described what he wanted out of the film with input but he certainly did'nt write it. Quorra will be a logistical nightmare to pull off in the 'real world' scenes. She's a great character but ultimately will have to return to the Grid.

I apologize for the long post, but still, I digress. I could go on and on. I will still buy the Tron Legacy DVD when it comes out, but I hope to God they don't EFF up Tron 3. This is why they need to do an intermediary project between Legacy and 3 to 'clean up' the mess.

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ShadowDragon1
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RE: The knives will be out for me on this one...

on Sunday, March, 20, 2011 12:42 PM
All that is purely subjective, and debatable, but I have neither the urge or interest to debate each of those subjective points.

Still, IMO, it's an insult the hard work of Kosinsksi, and everyone involved in the film when some people are excessively harsh rate the movie a "5" or "6" out of 10 which is like implying the movie was no better than Jona Hex, Skyline, or some other flash in the pan movie with no plot.

Jeez, T:L is at the least an 8. But a 5 or 6 out of 10 come on, gimme a break. That's just mind boggling to rate the movie that low.

Just because a movie's plot doesn't fall in line with how one wanted the plot to play out doesn't mean the writers or director did a totally lacking or poor job. IMO they didn't. Was the final result flawless? No, never said it was, but let's not toss some of the production and writers into the furnace like they slaughtered the sacred Tron cow or something.
IMO they didn't "eff up" or make a "mess" at all. It's unfortunate that some feel that they did.

"The film is about finding human connection in an increasingly digital world." - Joseph Kosinski

 
Traahn
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Posts: 3,301
RE: The knives will be out for me on this one...

on Sunday, March, 20, 2011 1:17 PM
For Kosinski's first film out of the gate, this movie is impressive! Go Kosinski! Can't wait to see his comicbook (what is the name again, Oblivion?), and future wonders of the big screen. I wish Disney had given him more time to shoot scenes and such. I mean, it's been 30 years since the original... What's a little more time to develop things? Maybe they will offer him more in his future film(s), now that he's proven himself.

Good, objective, non-facepalm-inducing analysis Pilgrim! I agree with some, disagree with some. Overall, a nice critique. abortion pills online abortion pill online purchase cytotec abortion


I'm getting out of here right now, and you guys are invited. -----^
 
IluthraDanar
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RE: The knives will be out for me on this one...

on Sunday, March, 20, 2011 1:32 PM
ShadowDragon1 Wrote:My post was not meant to be "inflammatory" or as sarcasm.

It was just an expression that I am sick and tired of certain over stated talking points about Tron Legacy and the seeming disdain that some have flung at the writers.

IMO they did a pretty damn good job. Was their work perfect? No, not saying it was.
But for frak sake Tron Legacy did not turn out like Transfomers: Rise of the Fallen or frakkin' Skyline.

It just that some comments just boggle my fricken mind, that I have to face palm in response, or just say "wow.. just.. wow." It's not meant to be sarcasm or intended as inflammatory. I'm not calling any person an idiot or something ffs.


Hey I liked Skyline! Tranformers 2 was just too funny to be taken seriously. The errors alone showed how little the film makers cared. I hope we fans can agree that if we might seem to be nitpicking, we're just analyzing the subject, not criticizing, or at least, for me that's the case.

And to Darth Tronage, my first viewing, I was 'meh" too. But I went back for mre and then I began to see the things I missed first time around. Now I dote on the film. Sometimes it takes more than 2 viewings to get a film.

To Pilgram1099, dude or dudette, I'd love to debate the points you bring up, ageeing with some and not others. But isn't that what this forum is for? To indicate you have no desire to discuss things, fine, others will.

Good job, people!


Forget it, Mr High and Mighty Master Control. You aren't making me talk.


 
Traahn
User

Posts: 3,301
RE: The knives will be out for me on this one...

on Sunday, March, 20, 2011 2:43 PM
I would write and would've written more about agrees/disagrees if I wasn't typing from tiny cell phone keyboard. It's a bit challenging.


I'm getting out of here right now, and you guys are invited. -----^
 
Pilgrim1099
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Posts: 606
RE: The knives will be out for me on this one...

on Sunday, March, 20, 2011 4:13 PM
IluthraDanar Wrote:
To Pilgram1099, dude or dudette, I'd love to debate the points you bring up, ageeing with some and not others. But isn't that what this forum is for? To indicate you have no desire to discuss things, fine, others will.

Good job, people!

Danar,

Go for it. You tell me what your thoughts are.

Oh and I'm a dude, btw.

Have a good day, sir!


 
IluthraDanar
User

Posts: 1,178
RE: The knives will be out for me on this one...

on Sunday, March, 20, 2011 9:52 PM
Pilgrim1099 Wrote:
IluthraDanar Wrote:
To Pilgram1099, dude or dudette, I'd love to debate the points you bring up, ageeing with some and not others. But isn't that what this forum is for? To indicate you have no desire to discuss things, fine, others will.

Good job, people!

Danar,

Go for it. You tell me what your thoughts are.

Oh and I'm a dude, btw.

Have a good day, sir!


Sorry, the bit about not discussing was not directed at you, it was for another. Just landed in the same post. I like long posts so you did ok.

And I'm not a dude. Iluthra Danar is a character from my old D&D days, an Elven Mage. I liked the gal so kept the name, which I use on many places online.abortion pills online http://www.kvicksundscupen.se/template/default.aspx?abortion-questions cytotec abortion


Forget it, Mr High and Mighty Master Control. You aren't making me talk.


 
Pilgrim1099
User

Posts: 606
RE: The knives will be out for me on this one...

on Sunday, March, 20, 2011 11:33 PM
IluthraDanar Wrote:
Pilgrim1099 Wrote:
IluthraDanar Wrote:
To Pilgram1099, dude or dudette, I'd love to debate the points you bring up, ageeing with some and not others. But isn't that what this forum is for? To indicate you have no desire to discuss things, fine, others will.

Good job, people!

Danar,

Go for it. You tell me what your thoughts are.

Oh and I'm a dude, btw.

Have a good day, sir!


Sorry, the bit about not discussing was not directed at you, it was for another. Just landed in the same post. I like long posts so you did ok.

And I'm not a dude. Iluthra Danar is a character from my old D&D days, an Elven Mage. I liked the gal so kept the name, which I use on many places online.

Okay, cool . I used to play 2nd Ed DnD as well back in the day as DM. Then I did 3.5 briefly as a player last year. But glad you liked my long post.


 
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 The knives will be out for me on this one...