ShadowDragon1 Wrote: Many, many die-hard Tron fans I know on Unifiction and Facebook, some of which are former, long time members of this site strongly disagree with you Darth Tronage.
Saying Bay's Tranformers was more enjoyable than Tron Legacy. I do hope that was a joke/sarcasm.... :/
As as sequel to Tron, Tron Legacy it's a *good* sequel, and a pretty good movie, many rank the movie between an 8 and a 9. It's not perfect, I wasn't saying it is.
My intention is not to blindly defend the movie. I'm just expressing my views and presenting information to counter some of the talking points people have brought up.
In my view the quality of the film's storyline, characters and it's visual design speak for themselves. Which IMO and others I know, those rate fairly high in their view and in my view as well.
I don't work for Disney. I wish I did, I could use a good, steady paycheck.
I'm just Tron fan that strongly feels that some of the criticisms T:L has gotten are either way off-base or blown way out of proportion.
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ShadowDragon,
It's okay to be a fan of TRON and Legacy. Nothing wrong with that. I'm one of those who saw the original in 1982 and will always love the Tron franchise. But, the reason I made the reply to the other guy and similar postings about the flaws of Legacy is because I'm speaking for myself as an artist and writer. Plus, I'm hard of hearing and tend to rely on what I'm seeing, despite the fact I love Daft Punk's music.
I view things differently with a critical eye. It's kind of difficult to 'turn off' the critical eye when you're an artist doing game design, storyboarding, or comics, or anything related to sequential story-telling and multi-media. I can try to be neutral about it, but at the end of the day, my critical mind will start picking things apart.
It's part of my job to critique myself or others (not criticize, big difference). Am I being a bit critical about the writers' part? Yes, I am. Everything starts with a strong script. Without a strongly written script, the movie falls apart unless they luck out with a talented director or actor to 'sell' it. It is the foundation that is most important.
I did'nt certainly say Legacy was a bad movie. It is'nt. It was beautifully shot. Joseph Kosinski has an excellent eye for cinematography. There were some shots that I thought were 'Kubrickian' in style (as in Stanley Kubrick). It's just that I have experience in picking up flaws and influences. A lot of the elements of Legacy were well done regarding architecture, costumes, light cycles, the FX, and so on.
Clu was wonderful and this part angers me a bit where they wasted so much time and money in developing a fully realized digital counter-part of Jeff Bridges, only to be 'killed off' in the end. I understand they're trying to tell a story here in mythological levels. I get that perfectly clear. I'm a fan of Greek, Roman, Norse and other medieval mythological stories. Bill Moyers and Joseph Campbell are two excellent authors who wrote about mythology, by the way.
But, back on topic, there was simply NO logic in 'derezzing' Clu 2. After all, this is the second time in a row they killed him off, do you realize? Clu 2.0 had huge potential for further character development. Clu is one of my favorite Tron characters of all time, next to Flynn and 'The Man' himself with two discs.
The Marvel comic special with Tron Legacy was somewhat of an editorial mess because the ISO back story differed from the film version. There was definitely a lack of communication between Disney and Marvel. Somewhere, somebody screwed up in the editing department for the Marvel comic version.
I can see their point in saying Flynn is the 'creator' and is absorbing Clu 2 back into him because he loved Clu like a 'son'. He could'nt bear to hurt him and wanted to do right. Yes, what he created, he can also destroy or re-integrate back with. I can see why Flynn could'nt do this years ago all because Clu was surrounded by too many programs protecting him, including Rinzler who would wipe the floor with Kevin Flynn in a split second. The only hope Kevin would have is his 'god like' power to slow down the digital clock and simply walk past all of them and then say "Hi Clu. Time to come home to Daddy" and absorb him. See my point?
But he did'nt do that. I think Flynn was trying to 'teach' Clu a lesson in responsiblity, autonomy and independence rather than giving him a spanking, hoping he would turn around and say "Okay, I screwed up". That did'nt happen. Clu 2 did'nt learn that lesson and NO ONE was around to show him the error of his ways all those years, or cycles.
Programs have to be corrected to be guided back to the proper direction and function. What I was hoping for is have Dillinger Senior hiding in Flynn's Grid all those years, manipulating the system to his benefit, pulling Clu's strings. That would've been more intense. That would've explained the '2 users' line on Dillinger's touchscreen computer in Flynn's basement lab where Sam walks in and wipes off. Clu 2 is not a User, but he is close to that level since he is a digital clone of Kevin Flynn.
And I think that was the point of the film in 'What if Kevin Flynn became corrupt?" and this film explored that element, but I don't think it was enough. I wanted to see more Clu going about his administrative business.
If you take a look at the Star Wars films, how much of Darth Vader did we see going about his business, obeying and giving orders, plotting, etc?
In fact, I don't think a lot of people realize that the reason Clu 2 can't evolve higher and is stuck in his capacity is due to the hardware limitation. That's like putting Photoshop CS2 or higher into a 10 year old Mac with less than 1 GB of RAM. Photoshop is one of the most RAM hungry programs out there and yet I see Clu 2 as a program that got too big and bloated for the hardware to handle him. He had nowhere to go but up, or out, to evolve and grow. The only way Clu 2 could evolve was be put into a much larger Grid with advanced specs. If Clu is a program himself, then how much RAM did Flynn's computer have, really?
I can only imagine. It's a fantasy tale. My feeling is that Tron Legacy is the equivalent to "Empire Strikes Back" that a hero is taken away by sacrifice. What happened in Return of the Jedi? Han got rescued. Do I smell what they may do on Tron 3 similar to Jedi? Most likely.
And here's a thought to consider. If Clu 2 is as smart, devious and brilliant as Kevin Flynn, don't you think he would be this smart enough to make back-up copies of himself? If Flynn can clone himself digitally, can a program do it as well? Clu 2 has Adminstrator status, so he can repurpose programs, but copy himself, perhaps?
I'm sure the writers are probably going to see my post and go "Well, great idea! Let's use that since we did'nt THINK of that before!".
If they do that, Clu 2 has to REDEEM himself in Tron 3 back to the side of the angels. After all, if he SEES the new MCP (if this is what they may do), his eyes will twitch, his fingers will itch for his disc, his teeth will grind and he will start to hate that guy. The power of Clu Fu, indeed!
Let me get to the point about the LOST writers. I never saw the show they wrote, but have heard they made quite a mess. The producers even fired Jeph Loeb from the show, whom happens to be a writer for Marvel comics. I won't go there because I'm not a big fan of his recent work at Marvel in the last several years.
I managed to find a link to the LOST writers' inteview which you can copy and paste:
http://blog.moviefone.com/2010/12/21/tron-legacy-screenwriters-interview/
Those guys can go ahead and write Tron: UPRISING animated series and the formula will be similar to Star Wars : Clone Wars. It's a given. No mysteries there. After all, they love Stars Wars and so do we all. But, I really don't think it's wise for Disney to put them back on for Tron 3.
Now I know this is a long post but this is how I see things. Tron: Legacy was great fun to watch. It really is. But I can see gaps of pacing which I call 'beats'. Beats are very important to pacing in story-telling in comics, film and what not. Or if you want to call it rhythm, that's fine. It's like listening to music that is out of sync (despite Daft Punk's great album).
Want a good example? Go back to the scene where Sammy gets digitized for the first time. Yes, I know the new Shiva is supposed to be a faster and more powerful model to speed up the process than 'travelling' through the digital LSD trip that we all know and loved in the first film. I agree with the assessment that they should've showed that sequence but I heard they did'nt have time to squeeze it in (one reason why Disney needs to lay off the pressure).
Anyway, we get a medium close up shot of Sam on the computer, and then cut to his back showing the laser effect. Then we cut to the medium close up again of him on the desk, looking bewildered in a 'what the hell?' look. Then, there's a drastic cut of Sam running out the doors of the Grid version of Flynn's Arcade.
What's wrong with the picture? Simple. They did not show Sam running through the interior of Flynn's Arcade to the outside. Instead of going A, B and to C, they went from A to C directly. What did Flynn's Arcade look like inside the Grid version?
They never show that. They should've since this would've been the first sign of bewilderment AND the fact Sam is NOT in a normal place. Frightened by the sight that would've looked empty inside or too sterile, he runs out the doors. They should have use a 'tracking shot' to follow him outside and then revolve the camera around him as he looks around in confusion and end the shot with a worm's eye view of Sam looking up at the Flynn's Arcade sign, in the exact SAME MANNER he did as he rode his bike to the 'real world' version.
And then a recognizer shines a light on him. How hard was that to pull off?
Or how about the scene with Clu and his henchmen going from his administrative office to Kevin's hideout. But they never show those guys actually entering the hideout, looking for a door to get in. So, they chose the easy way using Rinzler as 'hound dog' to track footsteps to the trap door. They should've shown him doing that, pointing the foot steps to Clu towards the door as he goes "Ah, HA! So that's where he hides" with a cocky smirk.
And then we can cut to the medium shot of them rising through the elevator lift. But no, they went from A to C to appease to the 'ADHD'/'I don't have patience for detailed shots'/'I want my iPad2 NOW!' crowd. Go on. Take another look. You'll see the missing gap.
So really, who's at fault for the missing gaps? The editor who cut the scenes out OR was it the shooting script that jumped from one scene to another written by none other than the LOST boys? Kosinksi described what he wanted out of the film with input but he certainly did'nt write it. Quorra will be a logistical nightmare to pull off in the 'real world' scenes. She's a great character but ultimately will have to return to the Grid.
I apologize for the long post, but still, I digress. I could go on and on. I will still buy the Tron Legacy DVD when it comes out, but I hope to God they don't EFF up Tron 3. This is why they need to do an intermediary project between Legacy and 3 to 'clean up' the mess.
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