Nothing has been hinted at yet. I suppose it's possible, isn't anything in Hollywood possible? But I thought the enormous explosion and disintegration at the end of Legacy made it look like just about everything was destroyed. They didn't exactly show the entire grid disintegrating but I thought i may have been implied. I do think Tron may have survived because he fell in the water?

I'm hoping Dillinger Jr. snakes the grid from Sam and then Sam, Quorra, and Alan Bradley all enter the grid, meet Tron, and save the day. I'd really like to see Tron meet his user in person. I think that could be emotional for Tron given all the stuff he's been through.

I agree about why would Sam transfer the grid to his flash memory. I think people are confused about total disintegration because they weren't more blatant about showing Tron City or anything after the explosion. You are right though that they showed the reflection of light on the water and rocks so it was subtle.

As much as I really don't want to have any hand in yet another "this is what I hope happens in the next film" thread (really, can't we pick ONE and just keep posting in it???)...

laphtiya Wrote:Why do people keep thinking the grid was destroyed? All that was destroyed was the portal platform, you still see the Sea of Simulation clearly and some rocky area I think (working from memory here)

We don't know that. It sure as hell looked like nothing. They didn't show anything BUT Sea and rocks.

I always thought that if the Outlands were considered undeveloped area-- which I take to mean area with no coding, or perhaps unused hard drive space-- then what we see at the end IS indeed the entire Grid gone-- it's now all Outlands, perhaps as if the hard drive was wiped/reformatted. Just very basic data/code/whatever.

laphtiya Wrote: If not look at it this way, why would Sam even bother backing up a completely destroyed system? If the Grid was destroyed completely then the whole thing would have registered as a few kilobytes if that and he would have known there was nothing to back up.

How would Sam have any idea? He and Quorra had to have gotten out before the blast (otherwise they wouldn't have survived, yes?) He shouldn't have any clue what went on in the seconds after he got sucked through the portal, so he has no idea what may be left or what he may or may not be able to salvage.

Kat Wrote:As much as I really don't want to have any hand in yet another "this is what I hope happens in the next film" thread (really, can't we pick ONE and just keep posting in it???)... laphtiya Wrote:Why do people keep thinking the grid was destroyed? All that was destroyed was the portal platform, you still see the Sea of Simulation clearly and some rocky area I think (working from memory here) We don't know that. It sure as hell looked like nothing. They didn't show anything BUT Sea and rocks. I always thought that if the Outlands were considered undeveloped area-- which I take to mean area with no coding, or perhaps unused hard drive space-- then what we see at the end IS indeed the entire Grid gone-- it's now all Outlands, perhaps as if the hard drive was wiped/reformatted. Just very basic data/code/whatever. laphtiya Wrote: If not look at it this way, why would Sam even bother backing up a completely destroyed system? If the Grid was destroyed completely then the whole thing would have registered as a few kilobytes if that and he would have known there was nothing to back up. How would Sam have any idea? He and Quorra had to have gotten out before the blast (otherwise they wouldn't have survived, yes?) He shouldn't have any clue what went on in the seconds after he got sucked through the portal, so he has no idea what may be left or what he may or may not be able to salvage.

You and I are usually on the same page where Legacy's concerned, but I think I'm going to have to respectfully disagree on this one. Though we see the area immediately around the portal get zeroed out (which handily disposed of Clu's carrier), I didn't have the impression that the shockwave swept all the way out Tron City and beyond before collapsing back in on itself. The last shot appears to show the blast reaching no further than the shore of the Sea of Simulation.

I also think laphtiya made a good point regarding the file transfer - apparently there was something substantial left for Sam to copy, which would seem to support the idea that the hard drive wasn't wiped.

I think the main issue for me personally, though, is that I'm not really sure why "reintegration" would trigger a catastrophic failure of the Grid. It's not like either Flynn or Clu were core elements of the code or anything - the Grid itself predated Clu's creation, after all. (And that's something I haven't seen people do much with, fiction-wise. What was life like on the Grid back before Flynn created Clu? How did the programs from that era feel about this new program, created in the Creator's image to act as his proxy? Was they in awe of him? Did some of them resent Clu for usurping their authority? Before he existed, they had no one looking over their collective shoulders whenever Flynn was off in the User world doing whatever mysterious things Users did...)

Kat Wrote:How would Sam have any idea? He and Quorra had to have gotten out before the blast (otherwise they wouldn't have survived, yes?) He shouldn't have any clue what went on in the seconds after he got sucked through the portal, so he has no idea what may be left or what he may or may not be able to salvage.

In todays terms right click properties check file size. Also it something that would have destroyed the entire grid would probably have made the server trip perhaps the fact that it was still running gave him cause to back it up. Also you see what an undeveloped server looks like when Clu is created nothing there but a floor.

ArgentI think the main issue for me personally, though, is that I'm not really sure why "reintegration" would trigger a catastrophic failure of the Grid. It's not like either Flynn or Clu were core elements of the code or anything - the Grid itself predated Clu's creation, after all.

Perhaps its in the nature that Flynn created CLU, Flynn had to made CLU within in Grid I don't believe he did that whole mirror thing to be fancy about it. I mean it isn't like he hasn't created programs before right? No CLU needed something specific which required Flynn do go beyond just normal programming.

If Jeff Bridges does'nt get signed on, then it's possible they will go with CLU as a CGI character to sort of continue his role, but then again, using his likeness in fllm can be a problem if they are to compensate the actor for using his look.

If CLU continues, Bridges must continue his role. If there is NO CLU, he may or may not get signed on, depending on how they do the story.

Argent, as for the mirror thing, my take is that he actually did the coding on the outside traditionally by key and then he went inside the Grid to kind of 'download' the code and pull his program out. I suspect they're not quite 'dead' right after Sam got out of it with Quorra. The other thing to consider is Rinzler in the water.

Is he gonna swim ALL the way to the city? Or is someone going to have to dive for his body? This is another mess to consider. Does the Flynn/CLU explosion affect him? The shockwave must've because he's quite close by in the area.

Argent Wrote:You and I are usually on the same page where Legacy's concerned, but I think I'm going to have to respectfully disagree on this one. Though we see the area immediately around the portal get zeroed out (which handily disposed of Clu's carrier), I didn't have the impression that the shockwave swept all the way out Tron City and beyond before collapsing back in on itself. The last shot appears to show the blast reaching no further than the shore of the Sea of Simulation.

I think the biggest problem is that we don't know. They weren't clear about it. That's one of those things on my list of "We don't have enough info to know either way, so everybody just has to take their own interpretation."

Argent Wrote:I also think laphtiya made a good point regarding the file transfer - apparently there was something substantial left for Sam to copy, which would seem to support the idea that the hard drive wasn't wiped.

laphtiya Wrote:In todays terms right click properties check file size. Also it something that would have destroyed the entire grid would probably have made the server trip perhaps the fact that it was still running gave him cause to back it up. Also you see what an undeveloped server looks like when Clu is created nothing there but a floor.

I don't know to what extent Sam thought about it. Remember, he's just gone through a very emotional thing. And as I've pointed out before, that emotion certainly carries him through making a snap decision about taking over a huge international company-- something both he and Alan were in agreement was something he was NOT in a position to do successfully-- as well as possibly reopening the arcade. I don't consider he was thinking clearly at that point. It's possible he may have just taken whatever he could-- whether it was everything intact, or bits of broken code-- in the hopes there was something left. If you know your dad was in there, and you're not really sure what happened to him, is there anything in the world that will make you throw away ANYTHING you might be able to salvage? I'm actually surprised he even turned the machine off (although perhaps he did so because it WAS now unstable).

As far as the area where he created Clu-- simply from what we see in the films, we don't know what that is. We just know it seems to be a secluded area, but it could've been, say, an empty warehouse or something. (see below for more on this)

laphtiya Wrote:I think the main issue for me personally, though, is that I'm not really sure why "reintegration" would trigger a catastrophic failure of the Grid. It's not like either Flynn or Clu were core elements of the code or anything - the Grid itself predated Clu's creation, after all. (And that's something I haven't seen people do much with, fiction-wise. What was life like on the Grid back before Flynn created Clu? How did the programs from that era feel about this new program, created in the Creator's image to act as his proxy? Was they in awe of him? Did some of them resent Clu for usurping their authority? Before he existed, they had no one looking over their collective shoulders whenever Flynn was off in the User world doing whatever mysterious things Users did...)

I've not written on it-- and don't plan to-- but I've hinted before that at least some of the programs on the system may've felt Clu was just a Flynn substitute and would rather defer to Flynn if given the choice... which had to grate...

I guess it depends, too, on what Clu's role was. They may have seen him as Big Brother, or he may have just been the dude that kept things together and got shit done.

What I wanna know is what *Tron* thought about it (and Shaddox, if you wanna go with T:B). Here's Tron, keeping it all together in the Grid. Then Flynn's like "Hey, we're gonna need to create someone else." Why, Tron's not doing a good enough job? You ever been at work, thinking you're doing fine, until your boss is like "Hey, so-and-so's gonna help you." And you're like, "why, am I incompetent? You think I can't do my own job?" (and then what if the person who's supposed to help you looks and sounds just like your boss, or just like your friend or coworker...)

laphtiya Wrote:Perhaps its in the nature that Flynn created CLU, Flynn had to made CLU within in Grid I don't believe he did that whole mirror thing to be fancy about it. I mean it isn't like he hasn't created programs before right? No CLU needed something specific which required Flynn do go beyond just normal programming.

Pilgrim1099 Wrote:Argent, as for the mirror thing, my take is that he actually did the coding on the outside traditionally by key and then he went inside the Grid to kind of 'download' the code and pull his program out.

There's more on this in T:B, depending on how much you want to consider that to be canon. Flynn is shown coding from the outside, yes. Then he's on the Grid and he says, "I had to leave the main city for this. Creating something this unique could tear the Grid apart. So I'm going to have to get this right the first time."

So what's the mirror thing? Maybe he did the basics from the outside, and had to go in to put some essence of himself into Clu, some kind of "breathing life into him" metaphor or something. But again, this is from T:B. From what we see actually in the film... there's not much.

My thought on this was that with his father gone, backing up the files and shutting down the server was Sam's way of closing the door on that chapter of his life. He really didn't have any emotional connection to the Grid outside of his father and possibly Quorra. Now his father was gone and Quorra was out there in our world with him. Why keep it up and running? It would just be a reminder of the thing that had stolen away his father, and in the end, had ended up costing him his life.

I can't agree with that. If it was Sam's way of getting on with his life, he'd have shut down the server and not backed up the files. Backing up the files suggests that he is at least keeping the door open to doing something with the Grid in the future (even if that's just because it was part of his father's dream).

I also think the Grid can't have been 100% destroyed. Firstly, because we saw Tron light up again blue, and there's no reason for that to happen if not to keep open the possibility that he could be back later. Secondly, because they talked about how reintegration would destroy Flynn - they never said it would kill everyone else in the Grid, and I think that would have been worth mentioning as a reason Flynn hadn't done it.

Pilgrim1099 Wrote:The other thing to consider is Rinzler in the water. Is he gonna swim ALL the way to the city? Or is someone going to have to dive for his body? This is another mess to consider. Does the Flynn/CLU explosion affect him? The shockwave must've because he's quite close by in the area.

They shouldn't name the next movie Tron without actually being about Tron in some way. Although that thought didn't prevent Nintendo from making a Zelda game without Zelda in it.

I don't think programs worry about breathing air. So he could walk across the ocean floor like the ISO's did. Perhaps the ISO's will come back with Tron, or have some kind of base hidden under the sea of simulation. Although something like that would be easy to find from outside the Grid, and not so obvious to Clu.

They shouldn't name the next movie Tron without actually being about Tron in some way.

I actually wondered if that was part of the motivation for "TRON city" and "TRON system" - so the sequels could be about TRON and not Tron. But were those names ever used in the movie, or just other media? I have no problem with the movie not being about Tron, myself, as he was only a strong secondary, not the primary character, even in the first movie. The sequels (and games) have "TRON" in the title to connect to the first movie, not the character, IMO.