Forums (I/O Tower)
Forums 
 TRON: LEGACY 
 Clu Invasion force VS User military


New New Comments | Post No Change | Locked Closed
AuthorComments:  Page: of 3 PagesNextLast
LORD_Z3DD
User

Posts: 120
Clu Invasion force VS User military

on Saturday, November, 10, 2012 2:22 PM
When Legacy came out, a lot of people argued that CLU was't a threat because there was no way he could ge his army out of the grid , and even if he could their weapons wouldn't work in the real world.

Thing is, even if CLU got his army into the real world , and his weapons worked there, and his generals soon followed him ( that is, tessler's army and the rest of CLU's forces ) I don't see how was he supposed to take over the world, let me explain.

Combat on the grid seems to be mostly hand to hand or with Identity Discs, and while vechicles with guns exist ( like the tanks or lightjets) Handguns appear to be very limited ( on screen we only see that Castor has one hidden in his cane in Legacy and that Pavel has sone kind of extreme Sniper rifle in Uprising) .

So while CLU and his forces may kill a bunch of civilians in their initial attack , once the military comes in they are dead, because while they may be Good at hand to hand combat, the military just needs to engage them at a safe distance with their guns.

Your thoughs?buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online


 
Sso02V
User

Posts: 93
RE: Clu Invasion force VS User military

on Saturday, November, 10, 2012 3:15 PM
Maybe he never wanted to get out and wage direct war on the User world. Maybe he wanted to get out so he could jump into other systems, and go all Skynet on the Users.buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online


 
Kat
User

Posts: 2,346
RE: Clu Invasion force VS User military

on Saturday, November, 10, 2012 10:55 PM

What do you want? I'm busy.


Program, please!


Chaos.... good news.
 
Pilgrim1099
User

Posts: 606
RE: Clu Invasion force VS User military

on Sunday, November, 11, 2012 9:56 AM
That's one of the biggest weaknesses in the script that it fails to explain CLU's reasoning to get out of the Grid. If CLU thinks he can take on the real world with his miitary, he'd get wiped out in FIVE minutes. The US military would send in drones, jets, crack marines and take them out. Most likely capture one program for interrogation and twist this technology for their own.

That's another reason why CLU lacks the foresight to deal with the real world. In fact, the MCP only knows what the Pentagon does and the global market and real world implications. Even the New York Times. He threatened Dillinger with blackmail by going public.

So, CLU is actually extremely 'ignorant' of what the real world is like out there, thinking he can take it on while the MCP is fully aware of it, knows of other computer (grid) systems to hack into. CLU 2.0, on the other hand, can't because Flynn's system is completely isolated, exactly what Kozinski said, like the Galapagos Islands. It's cut off completely with no way of accessing other systems, or programs.

The biggest question is wither CLU, as a carbon copy, actually has Flynn's memories or not of the real world. I don't think he does.

It's really a writers' oversight because having CLU wanting to 'invade' the real world made no sense. He has no way of doing that if the Grid is cut off. The ONLY and absolutely ONLY way he could 'invade' was from the ENCOM systems in that building which is inter-connected to other grids and as well as the internet.

My feeling is that CLU wants to 'replace' Flynn out there and infiltrate the real world, even though people will question why he looks so young or how he survived his disappearance (or death). This might be one of the personal reasons why Flynn wants to prevent CLU from doing just that and knowing the world is'nt ready to see programs running about, or should we say, artificial intelligence?

Keep in mind that the programs, including TRON/CLU (the big wigs) are a form of high-functioning artificial intelligence, like HAL 9000.

Instead of bringing an entire army with him, he should've chased the Flynns and Quorra on his own, along with a couple of his men. That's it. Keep it small and personal.

Anyway, User military would wipe the floor with the programs. Period. If those programs convert to human status, they would feel pain they never felt and would'nt get used to such shell shock. They're not even trained to deal with human military, thinking they all use discs and are'nt aware that they have conventional weapons that can take down a recognizer easily. buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online


 
Kat
User

Posts: 2,346
RE: Clu Invasion force VS User military

on Sunday, November, 11, 2012 10:31 AM
Pilgrim1099 Wrote:That's one of the biggest weaknesses in the script that it fails to explain CLU's reasoning to get out of the Grid. If CLU thinks he can take on the real world with his miitary, he'd get wiped out in FIVE minutes. The US military would send in drones, jets, crack marines and take them out. Most likely capture one program for interrogation and twist this technology for their own.

...

This might be one of the personal reasons why Flynn wants to prevent CLU from doing just that and knowing the world is'nt ready to see programs running about, or should we say, artificial intelligence?


Actually, now that you mention it, it may make sense that part of the reason Flynn doesn't want Clu to get out is that, well, he doesn't want the secret to get out. For probably many reasons.

Even if Clu et al get taken out in pretty short order by the military, there will still be a HUGE to-do in which people will probably die, there will be a lot of attention, etc.

And at that time, yeah, there will probably be some serious 'splainin to do, Lucy. And bam, the cat is out of the bag. And NOT in the tidy way Flynn probably imagined, (which would be that he'd have all the kinks worked out and understand the Grid and its capabilities/possibilities/limitations completely, so he could present a "finished product," as it were). Yeah, I don't think the world's ready, either. For any of that. Not for Clu's ruckus, not for programs among us, and not to go in there and practice our selfish, entitlement-minded manifest destiny to take over yet another world (as humanity has continually done throughout history and doesn't show any signs of ceasing any time soon).

Really, who knows if Flynn may not have changed his mind about the whole Grid thing. I think I have a partially-finished fic in which, in all that time he's been there, he has realized that mixing human + program worlds is not such a hot idea. I don't recall any point in T:L in which he expresses a desire to bring the two together in present-tense terms as if he still believes it could work.buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online

What do you want? I'm busy.


Program, please!


Chaos.... good news.
 
Sso02V
User

Posts: 93
RE: Clu Invasion force VS User military

on Sunday, November, 11, 2012 4:44 PM
It just occurred to me that Flynn may not want Clu to get out and try to take over the world because he views him as his other son. He raised him wrong and doesn't want to see him hurt or hurt anyone else because of his upbringing.buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra onlineabortion pills online cytotec abortion where to buy abortion pill


 
trekking95
User

Posts: 2,411
RE: Clu Invasion force VS User military

on Sunday, November, 11, 2012 8:52 PM
Kat Wrote:We never do learn what his plans may actually have been. But I was looking over the screencaps of the scenes on the ship, and the dude's definitely not taking over the world with a few recos (do those even have weapons systems??), a few jets, some light runners. Just no. I'm not even sure I saw any tanks packed on board that thing (though there must have been). Imagine reco meets fighter jet. Imagine one-man lightjet meets civilian with a high-powered rifle. Forget it, man.

Here's a screenshot that gives you an idea of what he's packing along:
http://www.homeofthenutty.com/movies/screencaps/displayimage.php?album=140&pid=153304#top_display_media
Those are tanks on the left side of the picture. Kinda blurry, but yeah those are tanks.

Humans would totally beat Clu's army. But then why did Kevin say how it would be "game over" if Clu got out? How would Flynn think Clu would win unless he maybe could somehow?

Also maybe Clu thinks the outside world is like in the Jules Verne books, which would be easy to beat.buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra onlineabortion pills online cytotec abortion where to buy abortion pill

Thanks to FlynnOne for the signature!

If you're against bullying in all its forms, including cyber-bullying, copy and paste this into your profile or signature!
 
Kat
User

Posts: 2,346
RE: Clu Invasion force VS User military

on Monday, November, 12, 2012 12:00 AM
Well, see my reply above. I think that'd be a pretty good example of "game over." Especially if they're continuing the metaphor of Grid-as-game.

I don't think those are tanks in front of the Recos, though. They don't seem big enough. And they don't seem to have any movement apparatus-- they look almost like some sort of aircraft.

I'll go back and look at the screenshots tomorrow-- for some reason that site is loading ridiculously slowly for me tonight.buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online

What do you want? I'm busy.


Program, please!


Chaos.... good news.
 
KingJ.exe
User

Posts: 371
RE: Clu Invasion force VS User military

on Monday, November, 12, 2012 12:07 AM
Here's a thought: So say that CLU pulls his army through. With the Rectifier. Imagine, what he could do, if it was found that the rectifier worked on humans. Now, all he has to do is capture people (easy enough with his army), rectify them to his vision of a perfect system, and send em out again to get more. Perhaps THAT was his goal. And we have no idea whether vehicles can move through the portal. We can only assume that they could, if aided by Flynn's Disc. And we have no reason to assume that a realized rectifier wouldn't work on humans.

Another "Game Over" possibility.buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online

Everybody go join End of Line, an awesome TRON Roleplay forum! http://troneol.b1.jcink.com/index.php?
 
trekking95
User

Posts: 2,411
RE: Clu Invasion force VS User military

on Monday, November, 12, 2012 12:18 AM
Kat Wrote:
I don't think those are tanks in front of the Recos, though. They don't seem big enough. And they don't seem to have any movement apparatus-- they look almost like some sort of aircraft.

I'll go back and look at the screenshots tomorrow-- for some reason that site is loading ridiculously slowly for me tonight.

That's the best outline I could do on an iPod drawing app, but yeah pretty sure that's a tank. buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online

Thanks to FlynnOne for the signature!

If you're against bullying in all its forms, including cyber-bullying, copy and paste this into your profile or signature!
 
Kat
User

Posts: 2,346
RE: Clu Invasion force VS User military

on Monday, November, 12, 2012 11:56 AM
Hrm, it's possible they're tanks.

Here's a closeup:
http://www.homeofthenutty.com/movies/screencaps/displayimage.php?album=140&pid=152390#top_display_media

But in this picture, from the other side, they almost appear to be something with wings (I thought they were just a continuation of the line of three-man jets, but they appear to go all the way down to the end. That could be a continuity problem, though, as the numbers of rows and such don't seem to match up between the two pics, either, or perhaps the angle is just weird).
http://www.homeofthenutty.com/movies/screencaps/displayimage.php?album=140&pid=153215#top_display_mediabuy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online

What do you want? I'm busy.


Program, please!


Chaos.... good news.
 
LORD_Z3DD
User

Posts: 120
RE: Clu Invasion force VS User military

on Monday, November, 12, 2012 1:43 PM
Kat Wrote:We never do learn what his plans may actually have been. But I was looking over the screencaps of the scenes on the ship, and the dude's definitely not taking over the world with a few recos (do those even have weapons systems??), a few jets, some light runners. Just no. I'm not even sure I saw any tanks packed on board that thing (though there must have been). Imagine reco meets fighter jet. Imagine one-man lightjet meets civilian with a high-powered rifle. Forget it, man.


The Rectifier was only the first of many ships that would come later , each one carring more Troops and tanks, the problem is that ships like he Rectifier and Tessler's base are hilariously big and very very slow and while they are definately powerfull ( after all the rectifier nuked arija city out of existence) so I assume all the users would have to do would be to launch a nuclear missile at the things.

About CLU Knowing or not about the real world , I think he did know , after all how was he supposed to change the world if he didnd't know what is like? which makes CLU'S plans make even LESS sense because if he did know about the users military might why did he tried to attack the real world with batons and identity discs?
buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online


 
Kat
User

Posts: 2,346
RE: Clu Invasion force VS User military

on Monday, November, 12, 2012 5:01 PM
As yes, Rectiifier as another Star Wars reference. = Star Destroyer. Different shape, yeah, but the "moving slowly through space so we can see how massive it is and feel intimidated" -- yup.

Okay, tangent over. Anyway, the problem with shooting that thing down is that it IS massive. It would cause A LOT of damage if it fell. No way would they use nukes. They might try to shoot it down over the ocean, or POSSIBLY a large desert. But over an even-remotely populated area? Never.

I do imagine a regular missile could take it out, though. You don't need to explode the whole thing-- just damage enough to disable it and bring it down.buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online

What do you want? I'm busy.


Program, please!


Chaos.... good news.
 
KingJ.exe
User

Posts: 371
RE: Clu Invasion force VS User military

on Monday, November, 12, 2012 5:58 PM
Well, that's another thing. Assuming it got through and still worked (which the only indication we have that it wouldn't is that Quorra didn't come through with a lightsuit...) it's physics are completely different from real life. Would the military even know where to shoot? What sort of defenses does it have? We really don't know anything much about the Rectifier.

And wasn't it another ship that flattened Arjia? The one that you blow up in the end of Evolution?buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online

Everybody go join End of Line, an awesome TRON Roleplay forum! http://troneol.b1.jcink.com/index.php?
 
LORD_Z3DD
User

Posts: 120
RE: Clu Invasion force VS User military

on Monday, November, 12, 2012 6:18 PM
KingJ.exe Wrote:
And wasn't it another ship that flattened Arjia? The one that you blow up in the end of Evolution?

The Regulator was the ship that destroyed Arija in Evolution , The Rectifier is a more advanced version of that ship , so we can asume at least it has the same weapons that it had In Evolution.

I think the militay would choose to destroy the rectifier after it destroyed or conquered a few cities , after all if all that is down are dead people then it would make sense to destroy the thing before it kills more people

Alsi , if the military somehow destroyed the Rectifier, seeing how it's weapons work,would the ship it turn into pixels or turn into a bunch of scrap metal?
buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra onlineabortion pills on line abortion pill medical abortion pill online


 
trekking95
User

Posts: 2,411
RE: Clu Invasion force VS User military

on Monday, November, 12, 2012 6:19 PM
KingJ.exe Wrote:
And wasn't it another ship that flattened Arjia? The one that you blow up in the end of Evolution?
The Tron wiki says the Regulator did it. But the site may be wrong and I never played the game (yet). The wiki also says:

The Rectifier contained an immense hangar that ran from bow to stern. The mid and aft sections could hold thousands of assembled personnel along with ranks of Light Jets and personnel carriers. The long forward section housed numerous recognizers and rows of tanks. An open floor on the port side split the deck from the bow to the mid-section of the carrier, allowing entry and launch areas for flying craft. This was matched by a shorter port-side gap in the rear of the hangar.buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online

Thanks to FlynnOne for the signature!

If you're against bullying in all its forms, including cyber-bullying, copy and paste this into your profile or signature!
 
spacedinosaurblue
User

Posts: 50
RE: Clu Invasion force VS User military

on Monday, December, 03, 2012 10:04 PM
In the film, I think Flynn said something to the effect that Clu "has found a way to take this with him". Indicating Clu's ship, or his resources, or his army.

It's true that everything is written a bit too vaguely in the script, even though it sure seems some specific plot on Clu's part is implied. And don't forget: Clu actually showed his minions a holographic projection of the Earth - the User world, with its correct geographical layout. Clearly, Clu has access to something. He knows something. As for whether he has all of Flynn's memories - recall that Clu easily impersonated Flynn's speech patterns and real life mannerisms (at least Flynn as a younger man, the age that Clu had been copied from) to trick Sam during the initial meeting. Personally, I think it's unlikely that Clu would have been able to drop into "Flynn personality" like flipping a switch unless he had a full copy of Kevin Flynn's mind and at least some memories. Just hearing Flynn say "Yeah man" a few times on the Grid wouldn't have done the trick.

Something I always considered is that Clu and his engineers have had a thousand years to sit there in the Grid and prepare for Clu's future. Again, too bad the script isn't specific... but I wonder if Clu had not had his engineers design versions of their equipment that would function according to the physics data Flynn had on the real world, that was used to create the detailed simulation of the Grid in the first place.

One thought that would possibly make Clu's military genuinely scary in real life: if a RL translation of their technology was predicated on nanotech. In the Grid, all matter is smart matter. Everything is purposefully constructed, at the simulated-atomic level. All substances in the Grid are synthetics, some of which have similar appearances and textures to say, steel, stone, or glass. But that's just texturing. A direct translation of the Grid's operation in the real world might be smart matter comprised of nanomachines. That could prove to be a serious threat if it went too far before it was stopped. Clu might have been able to break down anything (and anyone) in his way to create fresh hardware and repair damage. Combined with the technology of the digitizing beam, and there could be some plausible doomsday scenarios to be found.

Of course, it's also possible that the truth lay somewhere in the middle. Clu may have had a basic understanding of the User world, but only as a rough sketch rather than complete ignorance. He's as smart and ambitious as Kevin Flynn age 35. He'd be one to take the chance and roll with it, adapt as he went. He probably wouldn't have gotten overly far. But he could done a huge amount of damage and killed hundreds of thousands of people. Thus "game over".

Plus, if we're to give credit to Clu's intelligence, here's an alternative plot: Clu may have needed Flynn's disc to exit the Grid. And he obviously plugged it into the Rectifier in order to upload or modify the code of the ship and its contents. (HUGE hint right there, that he had indeed engineered a way to manifest that stuff in the real world. It was being modified so it would actually work and not fall apart.) But nobody says he was going to stupidly sail the ship through first. What if Clu exited the Grid while his forces guarded the portal. Then he impersonates Flynn. Takes control of Flynn's resources. And prepares for a proper attack, bringing his forces through en-mass in the right time and place. Don't have them pop out of an arcade basement. Transfer the Grid, take Shiva or a bigger digitizer to the desert. And manifest a whole fleet of warships instantly, before anyone can possibly respond. Send them out to every major city in North America, start the takeover.buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online


 
Tzigone
User

Posts: 48
RE: Clu Invasion force VS User military

on Tuesday, December, 04, 2012 7:04 AM
I do think it was too vague in the script as to what actually would have happened. But if Clu was able to successfully take his rectifier and his army and tech (in working order) with him, that would be a big deal. And he would be able to open the portal and go back for more people/equipment (if the laser and other equipment wasn't all destroyed when he came through at the arcade) . With the different rate time passes at, he could have equipment manufactured more quickly inside the grid. And, the light batons that can create multiple weapons would be a significant asset. Does every rectified soldier have one? And the sheer surprise-factor would lend some power to his initial attack.

However, if a bomb/missile/nuke was used quickly enough, he and his army would be destroyed before they got a chance to do anything. I do think, as mentioned, that Clu's knowledge of our world is a rough sketch, at best. I don't think he has all Flynn's memories - I think he has the knowledge and information that Flynn thought he'd need to perfect the digital world. I don't think Clu has any scope of the size/power of real world military forces. I think Clu having Flynn's mannerisms (in so far as the speech-making Flynn, anyway) is because programmers put a little of their spirit in every program. And what Flynn was speechifying about was exactly the goal Clu was created for. I don't think Clu is anything at all like the other part of Flynn - the video-gaming, joke-making, bedtime-story-telling guy.

What I do wonder is if Clu would be able (if he knew one location) to go in and launch missiles and start a world wide war.

I don't think Clu had the ability to use pure military might to take over the world, but I do think he thought he could. And I do think he could have caused a lot of carnage in the time he had before he got beaten. buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online


 
Sso02V
User

Posts: 93
RE: Clu Invasion force VS User military

on Wednesday, December, 05, 2012 4:18 PM
Tzigone Wrote:And he would be able to open the portal and go back for more people/equipment
He wouldn't even need to go back. All he'd need is a few keystrokes and he'd have a thousand more war machines lined up to come out through the portal.buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra online


 
Theflynnabides
User

Posts: 215
RE: Clu Invasion force VS User military

on Friday, December, 14, 2012 8:44 AM
It would've been better if Clu's mandate was to escape into other systems and hold the User world hostage by controlling missile launch stations and the like. Then it would've been a viable threat, and not ridiculous.buy viagra onlinehttp://www.bilimselbilisim.com/haberler_detay.aspx?id=42 viagra onlineabortion pills online does insurance cover abortion where to buy abortion pill

____________________________________
"Tron is for NERDS!"

Yea, well, that's just like, your opinion, man...

 
 Page: of 3 PagesNextLast
New New Comments | Post No Change | Locked Closed
Forums 
 TRON: LEGACY 
 Clu Invasion force VS User military