Vaporware
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Posts: 217 | Would Clu's plan have worked?
on Sunday, July, 24, 2011 9:33 PM
been pouring over my "Art of Tron Legacy" - especially the parts with the mini-Shiva laser.
Seems they had some real physicists consider the idea of a laser deconstructing a person. The collaboration resulted in the addition of canisters for the H20, Carbon, and other left-over elements and compounds left from digitizing a person. So the system works like this: someone's energy pattern goes in and the remainders get dropped into the can to be re-used when the person came back out. Makes sense from a basic physics viewpoint.
So... Kevin goes in and leave a pile of hydrocarbons in the can. Sam goes in and makes a second deposit into the ashtray. So we've have the appropriate volume of hydrocarbons for two adult-sized male humans in the storage vessels.
So, yeah.. Clu probably could have gotten out using the master key. Maybe Jarvis or Rinzler if things had gone right for the bad guys. However, I don't see how Clu could have constructed thousands of of sentries and hardware out of the meager contents of the Mini-Shiva's ashtray - master key or not.
Quorra could have only come out because Kevin stayed in. There simply would not have been sufficient building blocks in the machine to make a huge army - much less all those tanks, recognizers, light jets, and other hardware. The raw materials would not have been available to the laser and the thousand folks above the first two would have become "vaporware."
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ShadowDragon1
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Posts: 2,056 | RE: Would Clu's plan have worked?
on Sunday, July, 24, 2011 9:51 PM
Materialize his whole army physically no, I highly doubt it.
I think only Clu would of materialized in the Real World. But if he's smart enough, he could pose as Flynn, and set up a connection from the The Grid server to the Internet' and then pull the whole "Skynet taking over all digital networks" thing has his forces spread across the worldwide networks taking over every "system"....
"The film is about finding human connection in an increasingly digital world." - Joseph Kosinski
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laphtiya
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Posts: 948 | RE: Would Clu's plan have worked?
on Monday, July, 25, 2011 2:42 AM
ShadowDragon1 Wrote:Materialize his whole army physically no, I highly doubt it.
I think only Clu would of materialized in the Real World. But if he's smart enough, he could pose as Flynn, and set up a connection from the The Grid server to the Internet' and then pull the whole "Skynet taking over all digital networks" thing has his forces spread across the worldwide networks taking over every "system".... |
Not this again LOL!
I think we have to remember that Flynn's own words were "He's found a way to do it". So I think this is more of a how would he have done it, personally I don't think he would have done it all at once but he would have done it...........why else would Flynn say he could? I think no matter what reasons we throw up, the guy who built the Grid KNEW that Clu could have done what he was planning to do.
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ShadowDragon1
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Posts: 2,056 | RE: Would Clu's plan have worked?
on Monday, July, 25, 2011 2:46 AM
Flynn's assumptions =/= what would actually happen... IMO.order abortion pill abortion pill buy online where to buy abortion pill
"The film is about finding human connection in an increasingly digital world." - Joseph Kosinski
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trekking95
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Posts: 2,440 | RE: Would Clu's plan have worked?
on Monday, July, 25, 2011 3:04 AM
I think he could do it. But could people kill them? Could an army of tanks/jet fighters/war ships/troops take on an army of light tanks/light jets/recognizers/sentries? Thoughts?where to buy abortion pill ordering abortion pills to be shipped to house buy abortion pill online
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laphtiya
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Posts: 948 | RE: Would Clu's plan have worked?
on Monday, July, 25, 2011 8:01 AM
| ShadowDragon1 Wrote:Flynn's assumptions =/= what would actually happen... IMO. |
Well like I said, it doesn't really matter what we all think (not trying to say what you think doesn't matter far from it). But you can't say that it wouldn't have worked because then we can all say "Oh well the Death Star wouldn't have blown up that planet because it just can't happen"
With Tron Legacy we have to accept the fact that in that movie Clu could have brought his army through as it was stated he could in the movie.
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laphtiya
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Posts: 948 | RE: Would Clu's plan have worked?
on Monday, July, 25, 2011 8:04 AM
| trekking95 Wrote:I think he could do it. But could people kill them? Could an army of tanks/jet fighters/war ships/troops take on an army of light tanks/light jets/recognizers/sentries? Thoughts? |
Good question, it would depend on how they appeared in the real world. If you notice Quorra was fully clothed when she entered the real world so I would presume that they would take on real world counterparts and not remain as they are in the digital world. Basically we could answer this if we found on what the Orange looked like in the digital world 
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gridbug
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Posts: 87 | RE: Would Clu's plan have worked?
on Monday, July, 25, 2011 1:40 PM
It would have been a pretty interesting ending to have had Clu come through the portal into our world only to realize that his armies and his tech didn't make it...
[ there is no spoon ]
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trekking95
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Posts: 2,440 | RE: Would Clu's plan have worked?
on Monday, July, 25, 2011 2:08 PM
laphtiya Wrote:| trekking95 Wrote:I think he could do it. But could people kill them? Could an army of tanks/jet fighters/war ships/troops take on an army of light tanks/light jets/recognizers/sentries? Thoughts? |
Good question, it would depend on how they appeared in the real world. If you notice Quorra was fully clothed when she entered the real world so I would presume that they would take on real world counterparts and not remain as they are in the digital world. Basically we could answer this if we found on what the Orange looked like in the digital world |
Yes but Quorra's clothes did not have the glowing part of it and just looked different. So would Clu's army still work without the glowing part?
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ShadowDragon1
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Posts: 2,056 | RE: Would Clu's plan have worked?
on Monday, July, 25, 2011 8:13 PM
the Death Star wasn't made by a smalll energy-to matter device with limited capacity matter storage.
Flynn and Sam's bodily matter doesn't equal massive construct army and vehicles in the real-world, and nothing indicates the laser could or was even set-up to even be able to siphon off enough energy and local matter to materialize the whole damn army in the real world.
Until some novelization, canon material is published, the writers, or Joe explain verbatim how it could be done. I'm going to think it could NOT be done.
"The film is about finding human connection in an increasingly digital world." - Joseph Kosinski
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IluthraDanar
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Posts: 1,178 | RE: Would Clu's plan have worked?
on Monday, July, 25, 2011 9:05 PM
| gridbug Wrote:It would have been a pretty interesting ending to have had Clu come through the portal into our world only to realize that his armies and his tech didn't make it... |
I liked that little cartoon, that showed Clu outside and the recognizer he wants to ue will not run. Hey, it ran on Grid energy, not gas, so it doesn't work on the outside.
Forget it, Mr High and Mighty Master Control. You aren't making me talk.
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Vaporware
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Posts: 217 | RE: Would Clu's plan have worked?
on Monday, July, 25, 2011 9:06 PM
I've generally operated on the assumption that Sam went and got Quorra some clothes as soon as they got out of the system. Added a few hours between the exit and Alan's arrival at the Arcade.
My issue, particularly with the "he could do it because KF said he could) flies in the face of a story where they specifically hired physicists to work out a barely seen detail like little cans of carbon and water on the bottom of the laser. Why bother with such a detail if you were going to bull-shit the rest of it?
Films like this create a reality with defined physical and technological limits. Intelligent folks suspend their disbelief because by yielding to one or a few accepted leaps (digitized humans and a grid) gives us the pleasure of a believable story. if the rest is internally consistent and believable, it makes the whole narrative that much more believable. That makes a good story.
All else is "magic" and this is not a story about magic. Short of being pedantic, significant inconsistencies do not make a movie that anyone cares about.
Transformers 2? Anyone going to be watching that in 30 years? I doubt it. Flashy effects and 3D date quickly - plots and geography are inconsistent and forgettable.
I can buy this: Clu is KF. he probably figures that he could escape and align the resources necessary to bring his army over.
However, there's no reasonable way that he could have utilized the Shiva from inside the Grid to build his entire force from the contents of the four canisters on the Shiva and have them materialize at the arcade. Matter in the ashtray one thing - the electricity to constitute thousands of soldiers and machines... that would probably blow the arcade's circuit breakers quickly or would have crashed Center City's power grid before much came over.
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ChessMess
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Posts: 443 | RE: Would Clu's plan have worked?
on Tuesday, July, 26, 2011 9:09 AM
Has the concept that Clu was not trying to reach the real world but to use the portal to reach a new network been explored? If Clu figured out how to get a page out, maybe he could have figured out how to use the portal to move his program to a new system, maybe through an old modem connect, but it required the portal which is the only the only way 'off' the grid.
Now he did show an image of the planet, but it showed all the land masses being 'hexed'. It doesn't make sense that he wanted to seize control of the land, so I contend that the map was more a display of the reach of the internet and THAT was what he was wanting to control/conquer.
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mastercilinder
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Posts: 399 | RE: Would Clu's plan have worked?
on Tuesday, July, 26, 2011 9:25 AM
I think we were really meant to interpret his plan as just a way to even get the key, and get to the portal.
Clu is the big bad leader, I really doubt he wanted to send his whole army in anyway, he just needed a way to get to the portal.
Notice how he doesn't really call for any backup when he confronts Flynn, Sam and Qurroa. He's too concerned with getting the key and getting in there himself.order abortion pill morning after pill price where to buy abortion pill
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trekking95
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Posts: 2,440 | RE: Would Clu's plan have worked?
on Tuesday, July, 26, 2011 2:34 PM
Vaporware Wrote:
I can buy this: Clu is KF. he probably figures that he could escape and align the resources necessary to bring his army over.
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Why would he fly a whole transport ship there, with the master key 'engaged', just to leave it?
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ShadowDragon1
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Posts: 2,056 | RE: Would Clu's plan have worked?
on Tuesday, July, 26, 2011 4:09 PM
Thank you Vaporware. That's what I've been saying ad infinitum on the subject...
"The film is about finding human connection in an increasingly digital world." - Joseph Kosinski
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DarthMeow504
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Posts: 134 | RE: Would Clu's plan have worked?
on Tuesday, July, 26, 2011 5:09 PM
Vaporware Wrote:
However, there's no reasonable way that he could have utilized the Shiva from inside the Grid to build his entire force from the contents of the four canisters on the Shiva and have them materialize at the arcade. Matter in the ashtray one thing - the electricity to constitute thousands of soldiers and machines... that would probably blow the arcade's circuit breakers quickly or would have crashed Center City's power grid before much came over.
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One, the "it's canon that it can be done and is a valid, actual threat because plot exposition says so" argument is airtight. Flynn says it can and will happen. He is not only the expert character that is the most qualified possible to know, he's also the voice for plot exposition. His word is Word of God on the subject, period. Unless you wrote the thing, you don't get to contradict that.
Secondly, there's no reason to believe that the Shiva would have to materialize anything from the storage canisters. Those things exist so that matter going in is reconstituted coming out without having to cannibalize matter. It's a safety protocol. There's no reason to believe that, if those safeties were overridden, that the Shiva couldn't zap every gram of matter in range to build what it's program says output. Walls, objects, buildings, the street, cars, even people could easily be dematerialized to have their matter repurposed for output. Matter isn't a problem when it's all around you, and avoiding death and destruction isn't a concern. Nor is energy a limitation when a single kilogram of matter converted to pure energy is enough to fuel a multi-kiloton explosion (e=mc2).
The Shiva laser is well named. It is both creator and destroyer. And you are seriously underestimating it's capabilities.where to buy abortion pill http://blog.bitimpulse.com/template/default.aspx?abortion-types buy abortion pill online
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ShadowDragon1
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Posts: 2,056 | RE: Would Clu's plan have worked?
on Tuesday, July, 26, 2011 5:58 PM
lol...
I explained in this past in detail why the vehicles and weapons would *not* function in the real world, even if all of them were somehow materialized in the real world. But I'm not going to bother repeating it all over again...
Sorry I refuse to believe that a "Masters of Universe the movie" scenerio with the Carrier with full army and all vehicles, materializing from some giant materialization wormhole/wide span ray beam would play out, it's too damn cheezy and way too cartoony IMO.
"The film is about finding human connection in an increasingly digital world." - Joseph Kosinski
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trekking95
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Posts: 2,440 | RE: Would Clu's plan have worked?
on Tuesday, July, 26, 2011 6:16 PM
ShadowDragon1 Wrote:lol...
I explained in this past in detail why the vehicles and weapons would *not* function in the real world, even if all of them were somehow materialized in the real world. But I'm not going to bother repeating it all over again...
Sorry I refuse to believe that a "Masters of Universe the movie" scenerio with the Carrier with full army and all vehicles, materializing from some giant materialization wormhole/wide span ray beam would play out, it's too damn cheezy and way too cartoony IMO.
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So Kevin Flynn, the maker of the laser and the whole grid, would not know if it could? I think that they would not work without the grid for power, but would get through.order abortion pill http://unclejohnsprojects.com/template/default.aspx?morning-after-pill-price where to buy abortion pill
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ShadowDragon1
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Posts: 2,056 | RE: Would Clu's plan have worked?
on Tuesday, July, 26, 2011 6:43 PM
Again, Flynn's (or Sam's) assumption =/= what would actually happen.
Yes he created the foundational coding for The Grid and many of it's vehicles, and assembled the Shiva system based on Lora Baine' s technology she developed (with Walter Gibbs). (As shown in the original TRON)
But I am sure the Shiva system does have it's inate limitations, no matter how it's "re-programmed". Even Star Trek Replicators are not shown materializing whole StarShips, a Star base, or massive buildings.
Component parts replication yes, which are then assmebled by teams of people yeah. But even with Anti-matter-matter reactor to power things, you never see a Replicator materialize a whole damn starship. Like wise I highly doubt the Shiva would materialize the Carrier and all the vehicles and soliders on board.where to buy abortion pill http://blog.bitimpulse.com/template/default.aspx?abortion-types buy abortion pill online
"The film is about finding human connection in an increasingly digital world." - Joseph Kosinski
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