The script left me cringing sometimes. Pacing and plot holes aside, it was a good movie and leaves the door open for a great one.

I don't know what the talk about plotholes comes from.

The ISOs are explained, somehow. If you blame the logic, then you have to blame the logic in every other SciFi movie. They were dropped quickly, thats right, but they were "completed" with the genocide fact. What other plot holes were there? I'Ve watched it 4 hours ago. I could not see any major ones. Most is explained or point-of-view.

That is the major problem some people had with Inception, too. Everything was explained in the film but they did not pay full attention. (This should NOT be insulting, this is a fact I noticed recently)

Maybe it is a question of age. I am 24. What about the others?

And beside some of he plot weaknesses, the overall film was great. Perfect CGI beside Bridges face and wonderful actino sequences. Not overloaded like other SciFi films.

@RAM:
If you watch the film on BluRay, the art style and the architecture is brilliant and outstanding. So many details. Beside, TRON and Legacy are the only two movies I know which use this pastell on black color style. And the mass market sometimes is stupid, if I see a Transformers 2 making 800mn. I hope you agree with me in this last point.

I don't think everyone hates it per-se. I liked it fine and I do tend to disagree with people who nitpick. Some people are way too nitpicky however.

I kinda agree with the OP's slower action observation. I tend to like a lot of movies that take their time to set up things and don't blow it all away with CGI made eye gouging sessions (P.S. I freak'n LOVE Blade Runner).

I also have an enormous attention span . . .

This might of been part of the problem, I think.

Maybe the "wonder" of the computer world was something the movie needed to draw everyone in. We are all too familiar with the ideas and concepts the original made popular, now that we knew these things, people didn't see the "magic" the computer world communicated in the original, when virtually no one was used to it.

I really don't know, It isn't completely hated, nerds just like to whine.on line abortion pill misoprostol dose abortion medical abortion pill online

TRON.dll Wrote: spacedinosaurblue Wrote:I don't think there's general hate for Tron Legacy at all. In my experience it's been quite popular, and actual made a whole lot of new fans who never even watched Tron before seeing this film. However, Tron Legacy has been a "hip to hate" topic on blogs like io9, where it's simply slotted in to "GUH HOLLYWOOD SUCKS THEY JUST REMAKE OLD MOVIES". The nerds and geekaratzi have hated on the film just as they hate on every single other thing that comes along. But, they're very noisy and do their best to set the tone on the Internet and in youth culture, so perhaps they're making it seem as if the film is generally disliked. I couldn't agree more. The "hip to hate" crowd in general just needs to go away. I hate it when a huge group of people decide to hate something based entirely on the fact that its popular. Ram64 Wrote:People simply didn't like it. Hell, I didn't like it! But, I understood it 100%. The film just raised too many questions, had a subplot that didn't go anywhere, and didn't have the best writing in the world. Now, I am still going to buy it on DVD, but the story isn't well crafted. But it is well TOLD. It makes the film entertaining, but not a masterpiece. It was okay, but not up to par. What subplot are you talking about?

I agree

We needed a four hour film to get everything explained. And I wouldnt' have minded.

I think the advance hype killed it. They made it out to be something fantastic and people were disappointed it wasn't all disk wars and the cycle races. Gee sorry, we need some story line here. And I loved the storyline, maybe because I loved Flynn from the first film and to see him old, I put myself in Sam's shoes. Old, after years in exile and away from his son. What kind of life was that for a lively person like Flynn? And Tron's alteration. Sad cuz I loved Tron too. If you had to be invested to fully relate to this film,maybe that's why so many didn't like it. They weren't even born when Tron came out.where to buy abortion pill abortion types buy abortion pill online

Do not fear. Here is the bottom line. The reason Disney is looking at a third film, is the unexpected revenue from secondary sources (ie. Soundtrack & remix, toys, clothing, ElecTRONica, etc.). Even Disney can't understand how TRON still has a steady pulse. Even now, you hear talk of those who have seen it on disc, for the first time, and loving it. Just look at the response to the fan made trailer "Tron: Destiny". As to the hater, it's simple. Tron was always seen as a geek/nerd movie. There are those who will refuse to see it for fear of being seen as a nerd. It's their loss. There is a growing fan base for another Tron movie. It is seen as futuristic cool by a great many NEW fans. Also, remember, we owe a lot to the Inernational market. Even Disney stated international dvd/blu-ray sales, for Tangled and Tron: Legacy, have helped recoup from losses(Mars Needs Moms). The Tron universe can and will become a consistant revenue make for Disney in the future. I can feel it.

on line abortion pill misoprostol dose abortion medical abortion pill onlineorder abortion pill http://unclejohnsprojects.com/template/default.aspx?morning-after-pill-price where to buy abortion pill

Interesting topic.

I don't think the visual style of T: L had much of an effect on its reception. In fact, most of the negative reviews I've read tend to mention the look of the movie (and the Daft Punk score) as the things they did like, then go on to point out that awesome visuals aren't enough to carry an entire film.

Here are some things about Legacy that I feel people have had problems with.


Poor Pacing
This is a huge one. A number of reviews have mentioned how the first twenty-five minutes or so in the real world seem to drag. The plot is set up pretty deftly within the first few minutes - we meet Flynn and young Sam, learn about the Grid, Flynn disappears, then we segue to Sam as an adult. At this point, the audience knows what's coming - Sam's going to end up visiting this fantastic digital realm in search of his dad - and they're ready for things to start happening. And now that the audience is primed, they're expected to sit through nine minutes of Sam breaking into Encom to leak their newest OS onto the net, a dangling subplot that had no relevance to the core of the movie. I think the director would have been better off just segueing from young Sam in '89 to Alan's visit with Sam in the present. They discuss Sam's adventure at Encom Tower in the dialogue - we could've gotten away without seeing it, and it would have helped the initial pacing.

Yet despite the slow start, T: L still ends up being heavily front-loaded in the action department. After the initial wait, we're rewarded with what are arguably the movie's two strongest action sequences - Disc Wars and the lightcycle battle with Clu. Then things slow to a crawl again while we're treated to flashbacks and exposition over dinner. The light jet dogfight is a strong sequence in its own right, but it just doesn't have the same visceral intensity as the other two. The fact that it's the last big battle in the movie just makes it more noticeable.

So Legacy gets off to a slow start, hits us with a major dose of action, then drops into low gear again for a long stretch of the movie. Things pick up a bit near the end, but they never reach the intensity of those early scenes.



Failing to Fulfill The Audience's Expectations
Another issue that people I've spoken with have had with the film - and it's a sentiment I share - is that Legacy lays the groundwork for scenes that audiences wanted to see, then fails to follow through.

Flynn's vintage lightcycle is a good example of this. Sam and Quorra arrive at the safehouse, and we're shown this awesome-looking bike. It's Flynn's vintage lightcycle, the audience is told, and it's "still the fastest thing on the Grid". Sam has shown he's a kickass biker, so the audience is expecting this superbike to come into play in the story somehow. When Sam steals the bike and leaves in the middle of the night, we're ready for the payoff - maybe a highway chase where Sam has to outrun some of Clu's Black Guard bikers.

Instead, we see Sam... ride into town and give the bike to Bum.exe, in exchange for a ratty-looking cloak that Sam doesn't even end up keeping anyway.

Cue audience disappointment.

Another case of failing to follow through was when Sam went to retrieve his father's disc from Clu's carrier. The guards move to stop him, and then we cut to Jarvis' reaction as they get slaughtered offscreen. Everyone I've spoken with IRL expected that fight to play out onscreen. It was a decisive moment for Sam, marking the point where he stopped needing to be saved by others (Quorra, Flynn) and came into his own.

To be fair, a four-on-one fight between Sam and the guards was storyboarded, but time constraints meant that it couldn't be shot. The setup and pacing leads audiences to expect a fight scene, one that's supposed to be there, so they're waiting for it. But instead of being treated to an epic disc battle on par with the earlier Disc Wars scenes, we get to hear the Wilhelm scream from offscreen and watch Sam walk through a doorway looking grim.

Once again, the audience's expectations are dashed, and not necessarily in a good way.

And then we have Tron/Rinzler. The audience is introduced to a character who's apparently the arena champion, the best warrior on the Grid. He's Clu's right-hand man and enforcer. Astute viewers also pick up on the fact that Rinzler used to be Tron, the program who sacrificed himself so that Flynn could escape during Clu's coup. The groundwork has been laid for something major to happen involving this character, so the audience expects it... then, when it finally does happen, it's brief and unsatisfying. (Even moreso for the people in the audience who never saw the original, since they have no emotional attachment to the character of Tron, and the phrase "I fight for the Users!" wouldn't have any special significance to them.)

If one or more of these setups had led to the expected payoff, I think that would have improved audiences' opinions of the film.



Plot Holes
There are some things in Tron: Legacy that are poorly or inadequately explained, or just don't seem to make sense.

Some of the gaps can be filled in by looking at the supplemental materials like the tie-in comics, the Tron: Evolution games, and the T: L ARG. You shouldn't expect audiences to be familiar with additional media, though - everything they need to know for the movie to work should be there in the script.

The Legacy writers didn't do the best job of deciding which points to address in the movieitself, and which to leave to other media. (I think it says something when a pivotal scene between Flynn and Clu. one that gives a huge insight into the relationship between them and foreshadows everything to follow, appears not in the movie itself, but in the tie-in videogame.)

The undefined nature of the ISOs is probably the worst problem. Quorra's a walking, talking MacGuffin - since the ISOs are supposed to "change the world" and revolutionize everything, it's vital that the last one make it out to the real world. Yet while Flynn tells Sam (and the viewer) that they're super-special, the audience is never given any reason to believe it within the film. Yes, Quorra's incredibly hot and she has great reflexes, but there are hot and talented women in the real world already. And while we see her regrow an arm, we don't know how much of that is due to her ISOness and how much is Flynn's l33t h4x0r skills and User-ness in action (and I'm inclined to think it's mostly the latter).



I may add to this later, but it's already ridiculously long. Suffice it to say that T: L had script and pacing issues that kept it from realizing its maximum potential. (Maybe they ought to let Clu direct the sequel...) This doesn't mean I didn't personally enjoy it, but I do believe that addressing some of the points I mentioned would have led to the film being better-received by both audiences and critics.

IluthraDanar Wrote:(Maybe they ought to let Clu direct the sequel...) ****** With his ego, the whole movie would be about him. Since I'm a huge Clu fangirl, I would say this is acceptable to me. ;-). You make some good points, Argent, but as a fan, I find it difficult to hack on a film I love. It's flawed to be sure but it entertained me and continues to do so with each viewing. Maybe the next one will improve on some of these flaws.

Sometimes I get the feeling people here take my criticisms of Legacy as mean-spirited attacks. I'm not trying to rip on the film. I'm just of the opinion that you can enjoy something while objectively acknowledging its flaws.

I loved Legacy myself, and there are a lot of things to love about it. I just feel that it could have been an even better film had some things been handled differently. With an animated series and a possible sequel on the horizon, I feel it's not a bad idea for fans to get their thoughts out there where they can be heard.where to buy abortion pill http://blog.bitimpulse.com/template/default.aspx?abortion-types buy abortion pill online

Argent Wrote:Another case of failing to follow through was when Sam went to retrieve his father's disc from Clu's carrier. The guards move to stop him, and then we cut to Jarvis' reaction as they get slaughtered offscreen. Everyone I've spoken with IRL expected that fight to play out onscreen. It was a decisive moment for Sam, marking the point where he stopped needing to be saved by others (Quorra, Flynn) and came into his own. To be fair, a four-on-one fight between Sam and the guards was storyboarded, but time constraints meant that it couldn't be shot. The setup and pacing leads audiences to expect a fight scene, one that's supposed to be there, so they're waiting for it. But instead of being treated to an epic disc battle on par with the earlier Disc Wars scenes, we get to hear the Wilhelm scream from offscreen and watch Sam walk through a doorway looking grim. .

I wonder if they didn't, in part, not show it because they'd have a hard time making it realistic? I mean, four at once for a dude who's new to disc battles? I find that hard to believe. As we found out in the club, even Quorra can't take on several at once. So maybe they figured if they didn't show it, the audience could imagine any number of plausible scenarios without having to say "yeah right, some n00b who nearly got his ass handed to him in the disc arena at his first fight has suddenly gone all Tron-like?"

Argent Wrote: Some of the gaps can be filled in by looking at the supplemental materials like the tie-in comics, the Tron: Evolution games, and the T: L ARG. You shouldn't expect audiences to be familiar with additional media, though - everything they need to know for the movie to work should be there in the script. .

I've been saying this all along. You (not YOU "you," Disney "you") made a movie. So make a movie. I mean, there was stuff in the movie that, from what you all have said of the games and such, is practically contradicted by the other media. Other media should, IMO, be supplemental, not most of the story. You can't really expect people to scramble around playing different games on different systems and such just to understand the storyline. If you can't get it all into one movie, make a sequel. And I know I bitch about that a lot, but it's true. Look, I'm a fan, but I'm not going to bust my ass trying to chase all the tiny bits of the story over the several different types of media that Disney has chosen to spread it over. I want a movie and a fandom, not a frigging treasure hunt hoping I can get that one exclusive soundtrack track that isn't sold anywhere else or that little plot point that only appears in X graphic novel. (I still wonder if the whole thing wasn't a social experiment by Disney to see just how far they could go and have the fans still follow, grasping for whatever they could get.)

I don't know how well the whole franchise was marketed. I only knew about the movie, until well after I joined here. But then, I don't own a TV so maybe there were a lot of commercials for the whole franchise I missed out on. Or, maybe they didn't advertise everything else so well and plenty of people were in the dark that there was more to the story.

Argent Wrote: The undefined nature of the ISOs is probably the worst problem. Quorra's a walking, talking MacGuffin - since the ISOs are supposed to "change the world" and revolutionize everything, it's vital that the last one make it out to the real world. Yet while Flynn tells Sam (and the viewer) that they're super-special, the audience is never given any reason to believe it within the film. Yes, Quorra's incredibly hot and she has great reflexes, but there are hot and talented women in the real world already. And while we see her regrow an arm, we don't know how much of that is due to her ISOness and how much is Flynn's l33t h4x0r skills and User-ness in action (and I'm inclined to think it's mostly the latter). .

I would think the latter too. Seems to me a program's "injury" or disability would just be a glitch in the code somewhere. Fix the code, fix the program. I would think Flynn could regrow an arm for pretty much anyone in the Grid, even if he had to go outside and sit at a terminal to do it.

Argent, you nailed it.

Lisberger told a full and complete story. Kosinski did his best to hide a badly constructed script.