If Kevin Flynn came out of the Grid, I would suspect he would look like the way he was in 1989. When he went into the grid in 1989, the lazer made him into data, so if he came back he would look the same way he did in 1989 because the lazer puts the data that was him in 1989 into the way he looked like then into 2010

LIT Wrote:Ya, but when he returns the data would make him look the same way he did in 1989

I think most people here (including me) assume that the data the system would use to recreate Flynn's body in the real world is his current form on the Grid. He was scanned in '89, but his virtual body has been subject to twenty years of simulated aging since then. Any real-world body rebuilt from that data would reflect that.where to buy abortion pill ordering abortion pills to be shipped to house buy abortion pill online

Argent Wrote: LIT Wrote:Ya, but when he returns the data would make him look the same way he did in 1989 I think most people here (including me) assume that the data the system would use to recreate Flynn's body in the real world is his current form on the Grid. He was scanned in '89, but his virtual body has been subject to twenty years of simulated aging since then. Any real-world body rebuilt from that data would reflect that.

Right. I had always sort of thought that he aged ON Grid because he aged OFF Grid (rather than it being the other way around)....after all, everything that makes him up is stored in the laser, yes, and it's been aging?on line abortion pill misoprostol dose abortion medical abortion pill online

Kat Wrote:Right. I had always sort of thought that he aged ON Grid because he aged OFF Grid (rather than it being the other way around)....after all, everything that makes him up is stored in the laser, yes, and it's been aging?

The raw material of Flynn's body spent 20 years stored in the laser, yes. I don't think that would have affected it in any meaningful way, though, not if it had been broken down into atoms or subatomic particles beforehand.

Why Flynn aged on the Grid is probably one of the biggest unexplained mysteries in Legacy, IMO. As far as I can see, it shouldn't have happened unless Flynn deliberately incorporated code to simulate human aging into the system. So, at least for me, the question becomes: Why would he have done it?

IluthraDanar Wrote:So we can assume the laser in not like a transporter? As in Scotty, who was locked mid transport, all his physical data intact where he could be transported and look like he did decades earlier.

I'm under the impression that the laser actually does work more or less identically to the transporters in Trek. The difference between Flynn and Scotty is that Scotty's physical data was stored in an inactive form within the transporter, while Flynn's resided within an active simulation that faithfully modeled the effects of aging on the human body, and automatically modified his physical data to match.

Hopefully he will be the normal Jeff Bridges
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And the reason he aged in the Grid is:

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spacedinosaurblue Wrote:Personally, until there's some canonical explanation (if ever), I'd stick with this: Flynn aged in the Grid because the simulation parameters for User avatars included aging, in order for simulated biochemistry to be accurate. Remember, the Grid was being prepped for visitors and even tourists. I think Flynn wanted humans (Users) to feel at home and like themselves. It was an exciting adventure, not a terrifying experience. Thus Users who port in have normal clothing, human features, skin tone, and a complete simulation of their body down to blood cells. Since Flynn never expected to be trapped in the Grid for 1000 subjective years, he wouldn't have yet gotten around to experimenting with using the Grid to create a sense of immortality for visiting users. As to why Flynn *only* aged 20 years but experienced a subjective 1000 cycles of Grid time... the software code base running the grid was in the real world, which meant the timing of the software engine was synched to the real world. Thus, Flynn experienced a paradox. His virtual body aged at the same rate as human reality, but his mind experienced time synched to the Grid's cycle scale - one thousand years in human terms.

Some interesting conjecture there. : )

I'm inclined to agree - that Users age at all is a testimonial to how accurately their bodies are modeled on the Grid. My pet theory was that Flynn deliberately designed the system this way because he hoped to use it for pharmaceutical research and medical treatment one day, among other things. (Even without the other advantages of working on the Grid vs. the real world, being able to spend months recovering from injuries there while only days passed in the real world would be incredibly handy.)

Another possibility I considered is that eliminating aging on the Grid altogether might have been difficult for Flynn, maybe even impossible. When the laser scans an object, it creates a digital record of the particles that object's composed of. Once you have that data, you don't need to understand how a human body functions for it to work on the Grid. As long as your simulated physics model is accurate enough (and fine-grained enough), the rest would follow naturally. It's just a matter of making sure to get the math right and throwing sufficient processing power at the simulation. On the other hand, selectively tweaking the system code to keep Users on the Grid from aging would require an incredibly deep grasp of human biochemistry and genetics - he'd need to know exactly what bodily processes need to be adjusted, to what degree, and how to do so without throwing anything else out of kilter. Though we know Flynn's a brilliant coder, for him to suddenly be revealed as a master of molecular biophysics and gerontology on top of that pushes the bounds of believability.

We're still left with the question of why Flynn pegged the timing of the simulated aging process to the real-time clock,. Maybe it was one of those minor unresolved code issues that he never got around to fixing. Aging at the same rate in both worlds wasn't exactly harming him, and he had other, more pressing things related to the Grid to deal with. I imagine he'd've given it more attention if he knew he'd end up being trapped there one day, but that's one of those 'hindsight is wonderful' situations.

I dunno. Could you heal an injury on the Grid and have it be healed in real life? Somehow I never imagined that your Grid body translates to your real body, since it's just a simulation. Plus then it'd have to also work the other way around, right? I mean, if I get a papercut on the Grid, is the laser really going to create a papercut on my body in real life? I could see a real-body papercut coming to the Grid if the laser faithfully replicates your body as-is (rather than caching your data somehow and rebuilding you from the cache each time...which I imagine would mean if you're injured on-Grid, you could go out and come back in to get the state of your real body back), but I don't know if it'd work the other way around. Seems to me you'd still have to go through all your normal biological processes even if they're put on hold while your matter is stored in the laser?where to buy abortion pill abortion types buy abortion pill onlineabortion pills online http://www.kvicksundscupen.se/template/default.aspx?abortion-questions cytotec abortion

spacedinosaurblue Wrote:Personally, until there's some canonical explanation (if ever), I'd stick with this: Flynn aged in the Grid because the simulation parameters for User avatars included aging, in order for simulated biochemistry to be accurate. Remember, the Grid was being prepped for visitors and even tourists. I think Flynn wanted humans (Users) to feel at home and like themselves. It was an exciting adventure, not a terrifying experience. Thus Users who port in have normal clothing, human features, skin tone, and a complete simulation of their body down to blood cells. Since Flynn never expected to be trapped in the Grid for 1000 subjective years, he wouldn't have yet gotten around to experimenting with using the Grid to create a sense of immortality for visiting users. As to why Flynn *only* aged 20 years but experienced a subjective 1000 cycles of Grid time... the software code base running the grid was in the real world, which meant the timing of the software engine was synched to the real world. Thus, Flynn experienced a paradox. His virtual body aged at the same rate as human reality, but his mind experienced time synched to the Grid's cycle scale - one thousand years in human terms.

I don't think it could possibly be explained better. You have absolutely nailed it. Excellent [post.

Wonder how a preexisting undiagnosed condition, say cancer, would come into play.

Just put on hold for the time one is in the grid? You would think that as bad since the body probably has/had a better chance of healing if it was younger.abortion pills online abortion pill online purchase cytotec abortion

Argent Wrote: Another possibility I considered is that eliminating aging on the Grid altogether might have been difficult for Flynn, maybe even impossible. When the laser scans an object, it creates a digital record of the particles that object's composed of. Once you have that data, you don't need to understand how a human body functions for it to work on the Grid. As long as your simulated physics model is accurate enough (and fine-grained enough), the rest would follow naturally. It's just a matter of making sure to get the math right and throwing sufficient processing power at the simulation. On the other hand, selectively tweaking the system code to keep Users on the Grid from aging would require an incredibly deep grasp of human biochemistry and genetics - he'd need to know exactly what bodily processes need to be adjusted, to what degree, and how to do so without throwing anything else out of kilter. Though we know Flynn's a brilliant coder, for him to suddenly be revealed as a master of molecular biophysics and gerontology on top of that pushes the bounds of believability.

This actually brings up what I think is an interesting topic. We can call it science-fantasy, etc, but for the sake of an argument, with what we understand today about computer simulations, there's the point that a computer in 1989 wouldn't be able to simulate reality in such a fine resolution. Computers today can't. Using brute force, some future hypothetical quantum computer might be required for such a feat.

But a notion I've always been fond of, is that the "electronic world" in Tron is a kind of subspace which electromagnetic devices leave an imprint upon. Essentially, they influence the reality of that realm. Thus, a relatively simple computer program, when run, results in the creation of an "instance" in that subspace realm which can have consequences far beyond the parameters of the program - and the hardware on which it runs - in our world.

Going by that, I like to think that what Flynn's Grid is actually doing is setting up a basic set of parameters: fundamentals of physics, and projecting those into the 'electronic world'. From there, the 'processing power' to create such an amazing simulated reality, is coming from subspace itself. Virtual processes spawned by the material computer in reality, but without any limitations. That realm is ordinarily pure chaos, but the advent and creation of structured, ordered electromagnetic devices such as computer processors had an effect on it.

The art direction of the film seems to lend itself to this idea. The further away from the City one goes, the more reality breaks down; first into the Sea of Simulation, then into "rocky" craigs of the basic fractal substance of that reality. Their physics as well become less attached to the basic simulation parameters of the Grid's core environment - massive fractal structures floating in the air, orbiting one another, and past that, just "mist". Essentially the raw chaos of the subspace realm.

It'd also work, I think, as a tidy explanation for how basically ordinary people could have a hand in shaping such a reality; also, how Flynn got in so far over his head. He was just a programmer who began playing with the Shiva laser, discovering how basic math frameworks resulted all sorts of spectacular effects on "the other side". Most of that reality in truth, built itself, based upon Flynn's basic starter parameters. No wonder it all got away from him. Such a perspective also preserves the idea that Users are "false gods" to the inhabitants of the electronic world. Due to their power to shape reality from their side, they seem godlike, but are really ordinary beings even compared a "program".

Kind of creepy, in a sense. It would be as if a child from another dimension discovered some clever little node which, by pulling on it, allowed him to move mountains in our world. People would think that it was a god playing with them, when it was anything but.