IluthraDanar
User
Posts: 1,178 | What was Castor thinking?
on Thursday, May, 05, 2011 11:30 PM
When he talks to Sam about getting to the portal, I sensed a teeny tiny remnant of bitterness when he mentioned Flynn and keeping programs from escaping the Grid. Then he says sarcastically, I believed in Users once, as if he feels they failed him. Then he mocks Sam and Flynn while dancing (lol). So when he sees Flynn, the Creator himself, in his club, his face changes completely, even acts a little P-O'd as he stomps off, cane in hand. What do you feel he was thinking? Castor later tells Clu the feeling of awe in the club was palpable (even with everyone running around like headless chickens?). Was he in awe of Flynn, even a tiny bit? Since we can't know what he was thinking, this is merely guessing.where to buy abortion pill ordering abortion pills to be shipped to house buy abortion pill online
Forget it, Mr High and Mighty Master Control. You aren't making me talk.
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typicaltronname
User
Posts: 1,667 | RE: What was Castor thinking?
on Thursday, May, 05, 2011 11:48 PM
This is what I think he was thinking.
Castor: OMG!!! THE CREATOR!!! I'M GONNA GO GET MY AUTOGRAPH BOOK!!!!
This has been "What is that program thinking?" Thank you for joining us. We now return to your regularly scheduled program already in progress.
"Reveal your creation date or I will disassemble your code one operation at a time!"
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IluthraDanar
User
Posts: 1,178 | RE: What was Castor thinking?
on Friday, May, 06, 2011 12:19 AM
In lieu of anything insightful, I'll sit beneath this tree, chew on a blade of grass, and watch the clouds go by.
Wonder what a program would make of grass........
Forget it, Mr High and Mighty Master Control. You aren't making me talk.
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Traahn
User
Posts: 3,301 | RE: What was Castor thinking?
on Friday, May, 06, 2011 12:49 AM
| IluthraDanar Wrote:Wonder what a program would make of grass........ |
Yori would make a bed
Quorra would make a butterfly
MCP would make a game
Rinzler would make a weapon
Clu would make a jointwhere to buy abortion pill ordering abortion pills to be shipped to house buy abortion pill online
    
I'm getting out of here right now, and you guys are invited.   -----^
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rimwall
User
Posts: 507 | RE: What was Castor thinking?
on Friday, May, 06, 2011 1:44 AM
i'll play devil's advocate. 
i can't believe flynn's attitude of perpetuating
the image that he's a god/creator.
even the comics depicts him neglecting his responsibilities to encom
then he has the gall to play god on the grid.
it's hubrisy (let's assume that a real word)
he abandoned the inhabitants of the grid to solve their own problems,
the same way he abandoned clu.
he played god - then when he abandoned the inhabitants,
he showed them his limitations, it made them doubt
his abilities as a god. the abandonment made them
question his commitment to them.
| IluthraDanar Wrote: So when he sees Flynn, the Creator himself, in his club, his face changes completely, even acts a little P-O'd as he stomps off, cane in hand. What do you feel he was thinking? |
castor is probably thinking
"so you help your biological creation when he's in trouble.
but you abandon your digital creations when they need you.
oh my user... you play favorites! *snort* typical."
or to paraphrase star trek
"you never loved us"
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I.T. support: yes sir - you click start to turn off your p.c.
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rimwall
User
Posts: 507 | RE: What was Castor thinking?
on Friday, May, 06, 2011 2:08 AM
oops before i forget. this is an insight on
how much programs crave communication with users
MCP direct quote while assimilating tower guardians.
"all programs have a desire to be useful
but in moments you will no longer seek communication
with each other or your superfluous users
you will each be part of me and together we will be
complete."
we should pay careful attention to the choice of words used
by the MCP in the movie.
desire, seek
desire - is to crave, to long for, to hunger
programs just dont wait for purpose they desire/crave purpose.
programs seek communication with users, they don't just
sit around waiting for orders, they seek communication.
maybe programs get something from continued communication
with their users. i know there's something -i just cant
verbalize it properly
there is an important distinction here because the MCP understands
this craving - while flynn does not.
I.T. support: yes sir - you click start to turn off your p.c.
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IluthraDanar
User
Posts: 1,178 | RE: What was Castor thinking?
on Friday, May, 06, 2011 10:26 PM
Traahn Wrote:| IluthraDanar Wrote:Wonder what a program would make of grass........ |
Yori would make a bed
Quorra would make a butterfly
MCP would make a game
Rinzler would make a weapon
Clu would make a joint |
LOL Clu, a joint? A high ACP, huh? There goes the neighborhood.
Forget it, Mr High and Mighty Master Control. You aren't making me talk.
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IluthraDanar
User
Posts: 1,178 | RE: What was Castor thinking?
on Friday, May, 06, 2011 10:29 PM
rimwall Wrote:oops before i forget. this is an insight on
how much programs crave communication with users
MCP direct quote while assimilating tower guardians.
"all programs have a desire to be useful
but in moments you will no longer seek communication
with each other or your superfluous users
you will each be part of me and together we will be
complete."
we should pay careful attention to the choice of words used
by the MCP in the movie.
desire, seek
desire - is to crave, to long for, to hunger
programs just dont wait for purpose they desire/crave purpose.
programs seek communication with users, they don't just
sit around waiting for orders, they seek communication.
maybe programs get something from continued communication
with their users. i know there's something -i just cant
verbalize it properly
there is an important distinction here because the MCP understands
this craving - while flynn does not.
|
And was said by someone else, Clu had his purpose blown all to hell when Flynn says his end of film speech. What could he have been thinking? "You ass, is that what I was created for? To inflate your ego, while you go off creating light jets?" Poor guy, no wonder he was pissed but at the end of the film, he had great restraint. I might have killed Flynn.order abortion pill morning after pill price where to buy abortion pillabortion pills online abortion pill online purchase cytotec abortion
Forget it, Mr High and Mighty Master Control. You aren't making me talk.
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rimwall
User
Posts: 507 | RE: What was Castor thinking?
on Saturday, May, 07, 2011 5:51 AM
we can actually see some parallels
the MCP managed to stamp out belief in users (in some programs) by
terror, power rationing and coercion
flynn managed to stamp out belief in users (in some programs)
by simply abandoning them. not just abandonment but flynn cut off
communicating with his programs.
as the MCP has said, programs need to communicate with users
communication is important for programs.
the enemy in tron legacy is not just clu.
flynn is also fighting his very own limitations/shortcomings as creator.
it's weird in a way - because clu also represents flynn's shortcomings
it's easy to blame clu because we can see him as the physical
manifestation of flynn's faults.
but when we look at programs like castor who used to believe in users
we start realizing that flynn is not really blameless.
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I.T. support: yes sir - you click start to turn off your p.c.
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Tron Fanatic
User
Posts: 1,461 | RE: What was Castor thinking?
on Saturday, May, 07, 2011 12:14 PM
Aye, I think that was where I started to really feel depressed when thinking about the film. I felt pity for CLU and his inability to get past the flaws in his programming. That one was easier to forgive Flynn for, since it was pretty much irreversible.
But then when I started to realize that Flynn also abandoned all the members of the resistance who still believed in him. That realization hit HARD. Just... owch. If he had to give up because fighting just gave Clu more power then fine, but he shouldn't have abandoned the loyalists.abortion pills online abortion pill online purchase cytotec abortion
 '>
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IluthraDanar
User
Posts: 1,178 | RE: What was Castor thinking?
on Saturday, May, 07, 2011 2:16 PM
rimwall Wrote:we can actually see some parallels
the MCP managed to stamp out belief in users (in some programs) by
terror, power rationing and coercion
flynn managed to stamp out belief in users (in some programs)
by simply abandoning them. not just abandonment but flynn cut off
communicating with his programs.
as the MCP has said, programs need to communicate with users
communication is important for programs.
the enemy in tron legacy is not just clu.
flynn is also fighting his very own limitations/shortcomings as creator.
it's weird in a way - because clu also represents flynn's shortcomings
it's easy to blame clu because we can see him as the physical
manifestation of flynn's faults.
but when we look at programs like castor who used to believe in users
we start realizing that flynn is not really blameless.
|
I like to think Castor blames Flynn for the destruction of the ISOs, rather than Clu, although Clu was a Flynn creation. Maybe Flynn had ADD, making it difficult for him to concentrate on one thing, thus his inability to cover ENCOM and the Grid. Even though he created Clu to take his place, what went wrong with that?
Forget it, Mr High and Mighty Master Control. You aren't making me talk.
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IluthraDanar
User
Posts: 1,178 | RE: What was Castor thinking?
on Saturday, May, 07, 2011 2:19 PM
Tron Fanatic Wrote:Aye, I think that was where I started to really feel depressed when thinking about the film. I felt pity for CLU and his inability to get past the flaws in his programming. That one was easier to forgive Flynn for, since it was pretty much irreversible.
But then when I started to realize that Flynn also abandoned all the members of the resistance who still believed in him. That realization hit HARD. Just... owch. If he had to give up because fighting just gave Clu more power then fine, but he shouldn't have abandoned the loyalists. |
SInce I do not know how to add multiple post replies, here is another.(if anyone can advise, thanks!)
I wondered that too. He fled to the outlands as we see in the flashback but it wasn't like he might not have had a place to hide in the city, with so many programs wanting his guidance. And yet, knowing the creator wasn't with them, didn't make them any less desirous of fighting Clu and his regime. They did take advantage of Flynn's presence in the club though, killing the attacking Guard.
Forget it, Mr High and Mighty Master Control. You aren't making me talk.
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Tron Fanatic
User
Posts: 1,461 | RE: What was Castor thinking?
on Saturday, May, 07, 2011 3:04 PM
IluthraDanar Wrote:SInce I do not know how to add multiple post replies, here is another.(if anyone can advise, thanks!)
I wondered that too. He fled to the outlands as we see in the flashback but it wasn't like he might not have had a place to hide in the city, with so many programs wanting his guidance. And yet, knowing the creator wasn't with them, didn't make them any less desirous of fighting Clu and his regime. They did take advantage of Flynn's presence in the club though, killing the attacking Guard. |
I'm really beginning to wonder if we're going to see much of ANY resistance from Flynn with this. When Flynn talked about resisting Clu, I was envisioning a lot of major fights between ISO's, ISO sympathizers, and the Clu regime, but Evolution shows none of it. And unless the time between Clu's attack on Flynn and Flynn's exile into the wastelands was much longer than Evolution implied, then Flynn practically gave up without a fight.
'>
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Kat
User
Posts: 2,394 | RE: What was Castor thinking?
on Saturday, May, 07, 2011 3:36 PM
| IluthraDanar Wrote:I like to think Castor blames Flynn for the destruction of the ISOs, rather than Clu, although Clu was a Flynn creation. Maybe Flynn had ADD, making it difficult for him to concentrate on one thing, thus his inability to cover ENCOM and the Grid. Even though he created Clu to take his place, what went wrong with that? |
Doesn't surprise me that he couldn't do everything. I mean, being CEO of a company has to mean long hours--probably at least 60-80 a week. Then he's got an arcade to run. On top of that, his wife just died and he's got a very young child to raise on his own. And then he's got to go hop into a digital world too? I'm tired and stressed out just THINKING about all of that. In T:L, we see Flynn heading off "to work"--we assume the arcade. And it's probably safe to assume that was after putting in a full day at Encom, and a long one if he's only leaving at Sam's bedtime, which I would think would be around 9 p.m. for a six-year-old. I would think he'd spend at least a few hours at the arcade, both taking care of the management of the place (I'd guess he probably has a manager that takes care of most of the day-to-day stuf, but there's probably paperwork and accounting and crises to manage and such to do too). Then he hops into the Grid for say ten, fifteen minutes.
(Which really, makes you wonder--how much was Flynn there for Sam even when he WAS still in the real world? I get the feeling Sam got left with his grandparents a LOT.)
What do you want? I'm busy.
Program, please!
Chaos.... good news.
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IluthraDanar
User
Posts: 1,178 | RE: What was Castor thinking?
on Saturday, May, 07, 2011 9:43 PM
In the graphic novel, they make Flynn look like a big kid. Inventing things that he has fun playing with, while the other programs (Tron, Clu and Shaddox) try to get him to focus. No wonder he had no idea the coup Clu was planning. This was his creation, and he had no inkling???order abortion pill abortion pill buy online where to buy abortion pill
Forget it, Mr High and Mighty Master Control. You aren't making me talk.
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rimwall
User
Posts: 507 | RE: What was Castor thinking?
on Saturday, May, 07, 2011 10:39 PM
play being the operative word. it does feel like
the grid is flynn's own private Fantasy Island
(remember that show)
i'll play angel's advocate now
in flynn's defense he does not have the educational
training of an anthropologist or psychologist.
so he has no way to assess the mindset of his programs.
some part of flynn still thinks that they are
mere programs who must follow (to the letter)
every user request.
from a programmer's point of view - all programs
should follow user request. if my MSWord application
starts getting ornery i just reboot the sucker.
I.T. support: yes sir - you click start to turn off your p.c.
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rimwall
User
Posts: 507 | RE: What was Castor thinking?
on Sunday, May, 08, 2011 1:07 AM
something occured to me.
if 8 hours grid time equals 10min real-world time -
maybe flynn should have used the 8hours grid time to sleep
and rest.
but something bothers me about this too.
in terms of sleep effects on the body and brain chemistry :
is 8 hours sleep in grid-time equal to 8 hours real-world sleep ?
when flynn returns to the real-world will his body
and brain chemistry indicate that he rested for 8 hours
or will his body indicate he rested for 10min?
is this part of flynn's arrogance? he does not have
doctors examining the effects of grid travel
on the human body and brain chemistry etc.
when i see old footage of doctors examining test
pilots during the early attempts at supersonic flight-
i begin to realize flynn was downright reckless
attempting all those trips to the grid without
medical supervision.
it seems... irresponsible for a parent to neglect
his health.
I.T. support: yes sir - you click start to turn off your p.c.
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IluthraDanar
User
Posts: 1,178 | RE: What was Castor thinking?
on Sunday, May, 08, 2011 1:12 AM
rimwall Wrote:something occured to me.
if 8 hours grid time equals 10min real-world time -
maybe flynn should have used the 8hours grid time to sleep
and rest.
but something bothers me about this too.
in terms of sleep effects on the body and brain chemistry :
is 8 hours sleep in grid-time equal to 8 hours real-world sleep ?
when flynn returns to the real-world will his body
and brain chemistry indicate that he rested for 8 hours
or will his body indicate he rested for 10min?
is this part of flynn's arrogance? he does not have
doctors examining the effects of grid travel
on the human body and brain chemistry etc.
when i see old footage of doctors examining test
pilots during the early attempts at supersonic flight-
i begin to realize flynn was downright reckless
attempting all those trips to the grid without
medical supervision.
it seems... irresponsible for a parent to neglect
his health.
|
Funny you should bring this up. I wondered too, what effect being on the Grid would have on someone, unless, they are indeed digitized versions of themselves, therefore, it's not an issue.
Forget it, Mr High and Mighty Master Control. You aren't making me talk.
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rimwall
User
Posts: 507 | RE: What was Castor thinking?
on Sunday, May, 08, 2011 2:01 AM
IluthraDanar Wrote:
Funny you should bring this up. I wondered too, what effect being on the Grid would have on someone, unless, they are indeed digitized versions of themselves, therefore, it's not an issue. |
you're right. that's the reason i had misgivings about
having flynn sleep/rest in the grid.
i'm not sure that the sleep/rest the digital body experiences
will accurately transfer to the real-world body.
the only thing i was sure of was the memories in
the grid are transferred to the real-world brain.
it would surprise me if in TRON 3
we see sam with a scar on his real-world shoulder
(from his fight with rinzler)
on the other hand there have been hypnosis cases where
subjects exibited physical evidence of burn blisters
via the power of suggestion. (but i think they receeded
and did not become permanent scars)
I.T. support: yes sir - you click start to turn off your p.c.
|
rimwall
User
Posts: 507 | RE: What was Castor thinking?
on Sunday, May, 08, 2011 2:23 AM
i wish they explained the user-program communication part more.
because it seems like programs get something out
of it, (something tangible)
remember how clu can feed on flynn's resistance and
become more powerful.
i wish i had a good analogy or tv trope for
that. even a comics trope would be nice.
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I.T. support: yes sir - you click start to turn off your p.c.
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