ruined is too strong a word. for example, the legacy deluxe disc were way cooler than the frisbee 82...so was the recogniser...

FlynnsWrist Wrote:LWSRocks and Corruptron. whats your problem with others opinion about aesthetics of Tron 82 being more creative and colourful, hence superior than the current legacy? Ive mentioned this in another thread and responded in a very detailed and analytical point to the context of fashion and trend based logic. the thread starter has echoed it and kudos to him for pointing that out. tron 82 was a period in fashion and trend history that was very vibrant and creative. it was coined the New wave and New romantics years where not just design but music and movies were very iconoclastic and full of excitment. that period died when the 86-87 recession came and herald in the grungy and gritty era where the residue still is felt uptil today with all the bad news of recession and world disasters. Tron legacy dark and stale fashion is in fact a reflection of not just the movie concept but also the state of the hollywood industry. where jobs are getting scarce and politics rein even more. the producers are afraid to try something iconoclastic, something that tron 82 did and is hypocritical to use legacy. yes the technology is great but the legacy aesthetics were more of a homage to matrix or x-men than anything. Thats why the late seventies and early eighties movies where one the of the best periods of moviedom. If you look at the list of movies that came out that summer 82 you should know what I mean. so the both of you should just listen and learn instead of being such a raging internet warriror wannabe getting personal at people you dont even know. your tone and language offends ppl and your ability to discuss is zero. its people like you that the forum is so quiet.

A newb making personal attacks. Must be another sock-puppet troll like Abraxas who gets off trolling threads and insulting people.

This is 2011, not 1982. Stop living in the past and move out of your parents basement. There's a real world out there. Get a life.
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ShadowDragon1 Wrote: I like frisbees, they were fun back in the ol' 80's . The new Idenity Discs are based on the Hindu and Sikh weapon the Chakram (a mystically enchanted one was used by Xena in the series Xena: warrior princess). More info on the Chakram here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakram

awesome! didnt know abt the chakram weapon till now. thanks for the info.

ShadowDragon1 Wrote:um CorrupTron... FlynnsWrist Wrote: Come to think of it I kinda went a bit harsh on it. Thanks for the suit mechanics link. I am abit taken aback by the level of difficulty to create them. Perhaps my rage should be targeted at disney on not remaking the 82 toys for the launch of this movie. I missed the neca 2001 release and paying dearly for it (especially the blue liughtcycle). btw, anyone want to let go of the Neca yellow lightcycle. I know. its along shot. So.. um at least he can see he was being kinda harsh. I do agree that spandex and modified hockey gear wouldn't cut it in nowadays. I mean I did like the back lighting effect and the costumes in TRON and they are cool for then. I love the circuit prints and do miss them as they were minimal on the costumes in Tron Legacy (hopefully with improved battery tech and costume design tweeks, I'm hopeful for a few more glowing circuitry prints on the costumes in "Tron 3" ) But the cost of doing the same or similar in digital form in something like After Effects, and for 3-D are astronomical. I'm pretty sure there aren't 800- 1500 After Effects artists available to digitally rotoscope detailed circuit graphics on all VFX shots with live people. Omg can you fathom how long that would take as well? We probably would not of seen the movie until 2015!

Yeah, I am wishing for more circuitry with emotive response impulses but with more detail and level of intricacy. Somehow a transparent acrylic based body with very intricate circuitry and beeps beneath it. That would be fantastic if they could make that into toys too.

For that level I think rotoscoping would be hell on earth for 3D digital artists. I am a graphic artist and already I can sense the frustration. lol

LWSrocks Wrote:I think this lies in another difference between Legacy and Tron. Tron was a character-based movie, so the suits' circuitry reflecting their emotions was a good design choice, because then, you could experience the characters' emotions on a deeper level. Legacy was definitely a plot based movie- there was little to no character development, and the focus of the movie was definitely the storyline. Having emotion-reactive circuitry could have been decent/useful for maybe a few of the scenes, such as the Flynns reuniting, but other than that, it wouldn't have made that much a difference. Oh, and FlynnsWrist, you might get a kick out of this. When I first saw the test footage for the then-titled "TR2N", I literally said to my dad, "Man, these costumes are like motorcycle jackets with a few lines on them. Way worse than the original." However, the suits in the test footage were alot, alot different than the ones in Legacy, and the ones in Legacy were much better, so my opinion changed. But I just thought I'd mention.

Interesting view on the difference. I think the tron movie was slower paced which was wat most movies were during that time in the 70s and 80s. Back then theres always room for character building, and paced down 3rd person (audience) reflection on most scenes and such. Which allowed more room for Mise-en-scène giving it better all round natural pace. The flip side is it can get too slow like 2001 Space Odyssey. zzz

Nowdays, the cinematogrpahy is almost the most impt aspect for action packed movies. A true homage to MTV epileptic era. Almost hipnotic and now 3D. Yeah, thanks for that info on the biker thing. Actually, the final look of the leather is well taliored and the silhoutte is fine or else I wouldnt have bought the toys in the first place. Im just not so hot about it.

There was a major scene with Tron and Yori that was slightly "risque" that was cut. Which should of remained in the movie.

I don't mind minimal character development as long as the characters have interesting personalities and are likeable, and the overall story is solid.

I thoroughly enjoyed the original Tron do to it's very very likable characters, the great themes it presented in the movie, and the imaginative world it presented. It's action was mind blowing back in 1982, so you had to be a kid of 8 - 13 back then or just a computer geek with an affinity for sci-fi to appreciate it. It wasn't considered "slow" at all. See that's the problem with so many big budget movies, massive flash and super kinetic action but barely enough time to appreciate the finer details.

Sorry, I like the "slow" movies with solid stories over the Michael Bay/MTV/Spike school of quick cuts and explosions. Some high intesity action is fine, but it can be mind numbing sometimes.order abortion pill morning after pill price where to buy abortion pill

AriesT Wrote:Now look at Legacy. Garrett is never as interesting and charming as Jeff Bridges was in the first movie. Even Jeff Bridges himself was not a charming character anymore if you compare him to the agile Kevin Flynn of the prequel. He's just sitting on his pillow waiting for death. Thats not the Flynn all the veteran TRON fans wanted to see. The original Flynn would have beaten the shit out of CLU and his GRID creations to come back to reality whenever he wants.

I agree with you considering Flynn. He was definitely a different character. On the other hand, I think Sam was a very charming and powerful character. Hedlund nailed the role imo.

And TRON? TRON is a martial artist with no face, not even realizing that Sam is a user. And suddenly... in a matter of milliseconds... he just changes his mind. BOOM!! CLU pwned! He was not treated that bad in 82. I guess this scene pulled the last fight down very hard in quality. They would have made good in showing Tron slowly changing his mind during the whole flight fight. Not just in the last second.

Wrong. During the Disc Wars scene, when Rinzler is about to kill Sam, he realizes that he is a User, and spares him. It's at this point that Rinzler starts remembering Flynn and who he really is.

As I mentioned before, it is not the story _itself_ which is bad. It is the way it was told to the audience and how the characters interact and react and behave. A good Jeff Bridges acting can rescue the shittiest movie ever made. He is a genius actor. They did not use his abilities and fell back to the Dude performance he did so many times.

Agreed again. It wasn't Flynn, it was Obi-Wan Lebowski. I'm pretty confident that Kosinski and the writers know what they're doing, and that Tron 3 won't have as many of these issues.

Are you frakkin kidding me?
I'll explain Flynn's relevance....
The human emotional core and focus of the story is about Kevin Flynn and Sam. Flynn is a key ingrediant to the movie's storyline. It's not the action with the Light Cycles and fighting (as cool and awesome as they are, they aren't the end-all be-all of the movie)

Kevin Flyn is/was a programming genius, a visionary. He created the Grid, went from being *viewed as* a "God" by the Programs and then with Clu's take over;
Clu manipulated the populace, convincing them that Users are "false gods" and "enslavers".

There would be NO Grid and NO Clu without Flynn. He created them, it was his skills, knowledge and vision. His only mistakes was in seeking to create a perfect system/ Utopia, not expanding Clu's programming to understand things from different perspectives, and forgeting it was his son that was alot more important than obssessing with the development of The Grid, and perhaps not allowing the tranfser portal back to the "real world" stay open longer...

It seems like you may not of paid any attention to the first 30 some minutes of the movie Flynn's key dialogue in the Safe House, the flashback scenes, or some of the things Flynn said when on the Solar Sailer which are of key importance.

A person trapped in a cyberspace realm they created, it makes sense that they'd find their own spiritual philosophy to hold their mind together and to deal with exsisting, trapped for thousands of virtual years, that person will not be quite the same as they were as they were those many years ago. Having a zen buddhist outlook on things does not make him a "pansy". While Flynn was very bright as a programmer and a visionary Flynn isn't an omnipotent god, he just a man, and makes mistakes and is prone to common human flaws. He wasn't a great fighter or a brilliant stratagist either. The Grid became more ordered and rigid, it became Clu's world for the most part, so Flynn could not excert anywhere near as much influence over things.
Alas he was never all-powerful.

It was "the path of least resistance" is what Flynn took only after he tried to resist and rise up against Clu. But Clu only got stronger in retaliation to Flynn's efforts.
Flynn says: "Sometimes doing nothing can be more productive", is a part of acting along the "path of least resistance". Right action when the time is right, not going "against the wind" but flowing with it.

Clu was the metaphorical avalanche, and Flynn had become like a pebble that gets caught up in the cascade of stones rolling down the mountain. By then it's not really possible to put up any resistance.
Now, if one were to take out Flynn from the story, the whole story and it's foundation falls apart.
It would be like calling Yoda a "crazy alien bum" and taking Yoda out of Empire Strikes Back.

Another aspect of Flynn's relevance is as Sam's father, the head figure that ties the movie with the original in the strongest sense. He there for Sam to re-unite and reconcile with him.

To let him know that he didn't abadon Sam. Flynn is lost father as a quasi-rip van wrinkle/ hermit wizard archetype. He shows Sam a different way of looking at things, just as Sam showed his father a diffferent way of looking at things.

That reconcilliation is key to Sam moving on and realizing he has to stand on his own and do what's right.
The whole concept of "loosing sight of what truely matters" vs " obssessively following one's vision for something on a grand scale" is a key aspect that would not exsist without Flynn.

*If* Professor X was once a cocky, wise-cracking ladies man, and then 30 yrs later was a bald, calm, philosophical pacifist in a wheel chair; it does not make him any less important of a character in the X-Men comics, nor does his change as character make him a "pansy". Just as Flynn's change in perspective on things and some deviation of his personality over the course of many many years, and adopting a zen-like paradigm does NOT make him a "pansy".
I never once saw Kevin sit under a digital tree sing "coomba ya" while sniffing dandy lions and making them into necklaces or somesuch.

LWSrocks Wrote:Oh, ignore Sgt. Rhodes. He's just a flaming troll. Anyways, Kevin Flynn was definitely a main character, I don't see how anybody could miss that.

Oh is that what Abraxas is calling himself now?

AriesT Wrote: Kat Wrote:Tron didn't know Flynn was a user in the original, either. We don't know how he was treated in '82. All we know is he was attacked by Clu, and somehow rectified, but we didn't see what happened to turn him into Rinzler. We also don't know what goes through his mind throughout the movie and when, exactly, he begins to be changed--we just know when he finally busts out of the brainwashing. . But he did know after the first TRON movie. "He wasn't treated that bad" -> was meant screenwriter-wise. "we just know when he finally busts out of the brainwashing" And THAT is so bad about how they wrote his character. They did not even show him changing his mind. He just says one line and then BOOM. Thats no good story writing, no no.

The flashback indicated Rinzler instantly had total recall. That is what broke his programming. I buy it. If he was going back and forth throughout it would not have worked. What I don't get is why he is called Rinzler. We know he was named after the guy who writes books for Lucasfilm but I'm talking about the character. Obviously it is so nobody knows it is Tron, but how and why Rinzler? Does Clu have some random name generator when programs are rectified and that's what it came up with?