elek
User
Posts: 0 | My thoughts on the movie
on Monday, September, 17, 2007 10:41 PM
It was suggested that I post in the PING thread, but I have only watched the movie once ! and it was last Saturday.
I don't know when I first heard of Tron, maybe I saw it a long time ago when I was a kid (I was born in 1983).
I tried to watch it a couple of years ago but the file I got was corrupted...
The reason why I watched it recently is that I have Tron game project - more on that in the future.
About the movie itself now :
- One can wonder why it's called TRON and not Flynn, or why Flynn isn't called Tron because Flynn definitely is the hero in that movie, he's the computer genius, he made the games, he gets digitalized and becomes the only user in the system before saving the digital world !
- The costumes suck, especially Sark's one, they are a poor concretization of the designers drawings.
- It's interesting to note that this was the first movie to use computer generated images (yes ?) and was a Disney movie. Disney whose decline in the late 90's was due to their will to stick with 2D/handmade (right ?).
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DaveTRON
User
Posts: 5,315 | Re: My thoughts on the movie
on Monday, September, 17, 2007 10:48 PM
I can't wait to se how this thread unravels.
DaveTRON
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lurkinghorror
User
Posts: 803 | Re: My thoughts on the movie
on Monday, September, 17, 2007 11:12 PM
In part, I agree with you about the title. But the obvious answer is that "Flynn" would not be half as marketable as "Tron". Regardless, Flynn enables Tron to fulfill the destiny he was written for. To bring down the MCP. Tron IS the hero of the digital world, and Flynn is there to aid and witness. It fits the mold of most standard mythology.
Costumes: You're saying you like the designs but not the execution? I think you have to keep in mind the limitations of the era. I think the execution is sufficient, though the original illustrations do exceed the realization in the film.
It could be that Disney took a hit from not adopting 3d animation under the Disney banner (though bear in mind that Toy Story is an example of a movie made for Disney), but style of animation is irrelevant in terms of quality of storytelling. If late 90's Disney took a hit, was it because of the style of animation or the overall quality?
No sympathy over a corrupted file. Hopefully you paid for the movie in some capacity, or at least viewed a legallly obtained copy. There's more than one forumer here (myself included) that has suffered economically at the hands of piracy.
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Mr. Sinistar
Sector Admin
Posts: 1,642 | Re: My thoughts on the movie
on Monday, September, 17, 2007 11:25 PM
You guys have to admit that there's maybe one or two costumes in Tron that aren't particularly pleasing to the eye... 
Even though I consider myself a big Tron fan, I never really cared for Dumont's "Guardian" head piece...lol. Now, the Backlit/Kodalith animation that they did for all of the costumes in Tron is simply beautiful. Considering all of the man hours and extreme hard work they put into the animation, you can not dislike it.  on line abortion pill misoprostol dose abortion medical abortion pill online
OPEN SOURCE TRON PROJECT
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lurkinghorror
User
Posts: 803 | Re: My thoughts on the movie
on Monday, September, 17, 2007 11:34 PM
Mr. Sinistar Wrote:You guys have to admit that there's maybe one or two costumes in Tron that aren't particularly pleasing to the eye...
Even though I consider myself a big Tron fan, I never really cared for Dumont's "Guardian" head piece...lol. Now, the Backlit/Kodalith animation that they did for all of the costumes in Tron is simply beautiful. Considering all of the man hours and extreme hard work they put into the animation, you can not dislike it. |
I absolutely admit that.
As I said, I think the execution is sufficient, but not perfect. I hated Dumont's headpeice and I despised the odds and ends programs like the vacuum tube. Furthermore there were lines of dialog I disliked as well. Ram's death scene, as an example. The introduction and reintroduction of Bit seemed purposeless. Yeah, not a perfect film. But I have yet to see a perfect film so that's okay.
But then there's what is good about the film. First and foremost is the sheer creativity behind the concept. This has been quite heavily played out now, but who exactly was telling stories about cyberspace in the early 1980's?
I find that this is a factor often overlooked by younger viewers. When you grow up with a creative concept being commonplace, you often fail to recognize the point of origin. It doesn't take much to create a film like the Matrix in a world that already had a film like Tron. It's a lot harder to create a film like Tron in a world where science fiction is defined by Star wars and Star Trek and the average person can barely comprehend the technology of a computer.abortion pills online abortion questions cytotec abortion
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TronFAQ
Sector Admin
Posts: 4,467 | Re: My thoughts on the movie
on Monday, September, 17, 2007 11:48 PM
 
| elek Wrote:I tried to watch it a couple of years ago but the file I got was corrupted... |
So you downloaded the movie off the 'net? Usually not a good idea to admit that. How much does buying the movie on DVD cost, anyway? Heck, you even could have rented it. Anyway . . .
| The reason why I watched it recently is that I have Tron game project - more on that in the future. |
Do tell. 
| - The costumes suck, especially Sark's one, they are a poor concretization of the designers drawings. |
And I actually thought Sark's costume was the coolest of the bunch. His headgear was really unique.
| - It's interesting to note that this was the first movie to use computer generated images (yes ?) and was a Disney movie. Disney whose decline in the late 90's was due to their will to stick with 2D/handmade (right ?). |
Actually, it's not the first movie to use computer generated images. That's a common misconception. The first movie to use CGI (albeit extremely primitive) was Westworld, followed by Futureworld, Demon Seed, and Star Trek II. But Tron WAS the first movie to use CGI extensively.
But there's also a lot of what looks like CGI in the film, that was actually hand drawn.
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xistence
User
Posts: 135 | Re: My thoughts on the movie
on Tuesday, September, 18, 2007 12:16 AM
@elek
Well, for sure everything is just a question of taste. But if you keep in mind in which time-era the film was made and how much money was spent for it, i think they did a sensationel job on this film, even that makes it look much more better IMHO. For sure the costumes won't be able to mess with those these days, but if we would have 1982 and you would watch the film, they would blast you and you would like to ran around in one if you would be a kid and liked the film  (Moebuis had his fingers on the design of them, as a great fan -i- had to like them. For sure his costumes in 5th Element looked better, but - more money and later timepoint, so no compare). To try to compare such old films with current creations is always futile in my eyes.
And yeah, it is recommend to get the original on DVD, you might miss some of the brilliance in the film. I don't guess the dark optic of a film, with sometimes high color saturation that would create lots of optical artifacts due to video-compression, would grant you a good look of the film as well.
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DaveTRON
User
Posts: 5,315 | Re: My thoughts on the movie
on Tuesday, September, 18, 2007 1:41 AM
| TronFAQ Wrote:Actually, it's not the first movie to use computer generated images. That's a common misconception. The first movie to use CGI (albeit extremely primitive) was Westworld, followed by Futureworld, Demon Seed, and Star Trek II. But Tron WAS the first movie to use CGI extensively. |
Another is Looker (1981). Richard Taylor, of TRON fame, worked on Looker. He also previously worked with Syd Mead on Star Trek The Motion picture, although I don't know how closely. All of these smaller events were leading up to TRON or something like it. What might we have gotten if TRON had not happened?
| But there's also a lot of what looks like CGI in the film, that was actually hand drawn. |
I always hear this quoted, and I'd like to hear your list. I love when people toss this phrase out. What do you think is animated and what is CGI? Just curious.
DaveTRON
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KiaPurity
User
Posts: 3,488 | Re: My thoughts on the movie
on Tuesday, September, 18, 2007 10:35 AM
The only thing I can recall that was hand-drawn were the Grid bugs (they do appear to be hand-animated at least to me.)
And ah, the coloring were pretty much yeah, hand painted (wow, the amount of work!)
But seriously, I'm a 80's geek and I love the costumes in Tron. If you don't like those, that's fiiiine. Everyone has their preferences.
Plus, please actually buy a copy of the movie.  Piracy is a big no-no around here!
And if I remember right, the origins of the Tron title was because Flynn was always intended to be a secondary character (after they introduced his existence later) if I'm getting the information right from seeing the original Tron animation which was at least few minutes long.where to buy abortion pill ordering abortion pills to be shipped to house buy abortion pill online
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Boingo_Buzzard
User
Posts: 0 | Re: My thoughts on the movie
on Tuesday, September, 18, 2007 10:50 AM
I'm pretty sure the scene where Tron dances with the penguins was hand drawn and not CGI.
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DaveTRON
User
Posts: 5,315 | Re: My thoughts on the movie
on Tuesday, September, 18, 2007 1:35 PM
Boingo_Buzzard Wrote:
I'm pretty sure the scene where Tron dances with the penguins was hand drawn and not CGI.
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True. Very true.
DaveTRON
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TronFAQ
Sector Admin
Posts: 4,467 | Re: My thoughts on the movie
on Tuesday, September, 18, 2007 1:41 PM
| Boingo_Buzzard Wrote:I'm pretty sure the scene where Tron dances with the penguins was hand drawn and not CGI. |
Yeah! They stole it from Mary Poppins and reworked that scene for Tron. 
| DaveTRON Wrote:Another is Looker (1981). Richard Taylor, of TRON fame, worked on Looker. He also previously worked with Syd Mead on Star Trek The Motion picture, although I don't know how closely. All of these smaller events were leading up to TRON or something like it. What might we have gotten if TRON had not happened? |
Crap, I always forget Looker. And ST:TMP also had some brief CGI in it (when Spock enters V'Ger).
I don't even want to think about where we would be today if it wasn't for Tron. I'm sure CGI would have been used a lot eventually, but Tron really pushed the whole industry far, far ahead. Much like Star Wars did for practical effects.
I found an article on Wikipedia that lists a timeline of which films used CGI. It's pretty accurate, and mentions a few I forgot about. But they missed Demon Seed and ST:TMP.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_CGI_in_film_and_television
| I always hear this quoted, and I'd like to hear your list. I love when people toss this phrase out. What do you think is animated and what is CGI? Just curious. |
Well, I'll be curious to hear from you if I'm right about all my suspicions or not.
Things that were not CGI:
- The scenes where Flynn is digitized and reconstructed in the real world (the beam and grid pattern)
- Many of the backgrounds in the electronic world were not CGI (airbrushed paintings)
- Probably all of the control panels and animated patterns on walls
- Possibly the rings in the Jai Alai matches (and definitely the ball and the device that drops it)
- Scenes where the Light Cycles rezz in and out, when they form or disappear around their riders
- The scene where Flynn drags Ram into a corridor after they were shot at by the Tanks, the Tanks that roll by as they look from inside the corridor are not done in CGI
- The Logic Probe
- The "zingers" that pass by as Flynn, Tron, and Yori ride the Solar Sailer
- The Gridbugs
- The scene after the MCP is destroyed, where the I/O beams and landscape change color
Those are just off the top of my head. Maybe I should go back and watch the movie again, to see if I can pick out more.
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Sketch
Sector Admin
Posts: 2,939 | Re: My thoughts on the movie
on Tuesday, September, 18, 2007 5:47 PM
- The disc effects animations. 
- Pac-man on the domain map. :{
- When Flynns recognizer cockpit slides across the floor as programs move to get out of the way.
- The lightcycles on the acrade screen transition. 
- The hallway animation we see as Flynn is driving the recognizer.
- All the various derezz effects animations. 
- The device that deploys the Ring Game ball, and the ball it'self.
- The lazer beam shot when Flynn is reformed, the part where the camera zooms toward his chair with the various circuity patterns that passes by.
- The IO Tower port opening and beam color change via the disc.
- The Sark disc head shot. 
- The MCP absorbtion effects of both Clue and Dumont. 
- The lightcycle charcter close ups.
- The loading platform for the Solar Sailer.
- When the MCP beam derezzes revealing the original MCP form. 
You also get into the aspect where they used 2D techniques to get a computer image to work with the live action sections.
- Bit. They utilized 2D technices in order to paste the 3D character into the environment and fly around. 
- The live action bits on the Solar Sailer set with the cgi background moving as characters interacted. Also the part where the Carrier smashs into the Sailer.
-When the MCP comes into view of the Pod window with Sark standing at his controls.  where to buy abortion pill ordering abortion pills to be shipped to house buy abortion pill online
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TheReelTodd
Sector Admin
Posts: 0 | Re: My thoughts on the movie
on Tuesday, September, 18, 2007 6:43 PM
Boingo_Buzzard Wrote:
I'm pretty sure the scene where Tron dances with the penguins was hand drawn and not CGI.
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Damn! That really fooled me too. I SO thought that was all CG!
Maybe... maybe if only the penguins had happy feet they could have been more CG, right? 
Actually, as a kid, they fooled me. I thought that all the in-computer imagery was computer generated. I even thought the accomplished the glow effect of the costumes with computer augmentation. That's a cool word, btw, augmentation. No really - try using it sometime.
Anyway, as a kid, I found it odd that the "computer" animation looked amazingly like traditional animation at times - like when the arm came out and dropped the ball down for the ring game and some of the corridor animation when Flynn was flying around (seen from his POV). It wasn't until years later I found out that almost all of the still backgrounds were hand drawn and air-brushed images and that the grid bugs were animation via hand-drawn animation rather than CG (as were several other things). They still did a pretty good job though. For the time it was made, the background images blended in very nicely with the actual computer animation. I still think they blend together well.
As for my own personal thoughts about the film - it's a masterpiece of art, computer animation, cool concept, and STILL looks futuristic to me today. I've gotten used to being the fan of a film that most people just laugh at. Some of the guys at work (who know I'm a huge TRON fan) call it "that bad Disney film with neon computer people and those motorcycles". Oh well. For me - it's as good as it ever got. No other film has ever captivated me so much as TRON. Star Wars is up there, but over the years, TRON remains my favorite.
 
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Qix77
User
Posts: 2,992 | Re: My thoughts on the movie
on Tuesday, September, 18, 2007 7:10 PM
I guess I'm different. For me, the art of the film was the most spectacular sight to behold. I suppose I can understand the costumes being judged today, but since I grew up with the film they only appear dated but still very appealing to me.
Tron isn't the first to have CG in the film, but were they the first to have raster (non vector) CG?
Ok... now lets go 20 years later into Tron 2.0
The costume design for the game did make a huge improvement but still retained the classic style everyone loved. My only complaint is that you couldn't drive recognizers... but the art is still there... the art I fell in love with 25 years ago.where to buy abortion pill ordering abortion pills to be shipped to house buy abortion pill online
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Compucore
User
Posts: 4,450 | Re: My thoughts on the movie
on Tuesday, September, 18, 2007 9:39 PM
Tux the penguin was in ther somewhere?? Scratching my head in a feverish manner. Didn't tux come out 8 years later as a mascot for linux? Just kidding there Todd.
And we can't forget Ram's Nose was painted too cell by cell. I love the techniques and idea used in order to pull everything off in the film. Thats why I took cinematography in college at one point for the background stuff. in the early 90's. Too bad even then the hardware being used at the local colleges were not powerful enough compared to the computational power that was needed for what was used a the time for the CGI. I am sure like ellenshaw had mentioned in the 20th anniversary had mentioned. That todays computer systems you can make film auqlity video and animation compared to what they used back then for the animation. And with todays software and power that the coputers have would probably taken half the time to get don with what was needed to some effects.
Even a regular Pentium III, Pentium IV, Mac, Ultra 5/10, or SGI O2 would do what the kind of comuters were use back then.
TheReelTodd Wrote:[quote
Maybe... maybe if only the penguins had happy feet they could have been more CG, right?
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MutoidMan
User
Posts: 2,232 | Re: My thoughts on the movie
on Wednesday, September, 19, 2007 2:20 AM
TRON was the first movie to use computer animation and hand animation to represent the electronic world.
While a few of the briefly-seen costumes may have been questionable, the costumes were more practical and pleasing than the concepts and did a great job of conveying the idea that these were not people in the real world but programs in the electronic world.
The movie was basically told from Flynn's point of view because he was the stranger in a strange land, just as we were when watching TRON for the first time. You could say that in a way Flynn was our avatar in the electronic world and we experienced it through him.
Still, Flynn is not the principle character. TRON is the principle character of the movie. Alan had to bring TRON online in order for the MCP to be taken off-line. Flynn's task was simply to make that possible; a task he accomplished from the electronic world rather than from the real world thanks to the MCP. In my opinion that makes Flynn a deus in machina without whom the MCP could not have been defeated.
TRON is amazing, and its visuals are iconic. There's a reason TRON's is the go-to look whenever some comic or cartoon wants to convey the idea that a character is inside the electronic world.abortion pills online abortion pill online purchase cytotec abortion
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CyberBlade
User
Posts: 131 | Re: My thoughts on the movie
on Wednesday, September, 19, 2007 10:35 AM
heh. i Digitized my tron dvd and im watching it right now 
i never noticed it and dont know it anyone else had but in Alan's work block/cell/area...
theres a sign on the left that says " Gort Klaatu Berada Nikto "
Now i know it as a cheat code for Sim City Network edition..
but a google shows:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaatu_barada_nikto
lol and here it is: "# 1982: the words are seen in the film Tron, posted on a sign hanging in Alan Bradley's cubicle (27:20)."
lol amusing how it works like that.
anywyas, seen the movie a trillion times and love it!
lol, and seeing the Recognizers... when i first saw them i thought "wow.. thats a massive space invader!!"
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tron04
User
Posts: 29 | Re: My thoughts on the movie
on Wednesday, October, 03, 2007 7:11 PM
Well like it or not there's no way you can change the TRON.
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