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The PimpDragon
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Posts: 652
Re: Some thoughts about Battlestar Galactica

on Monday, July, 25, 2005 5:51 PM
Here's why I don't like Dekkard being a replicant: If he is, there is NO ONE to identify with in the story.

See, to me, Blade Runner is a film noir - whether you want it to be or not, although the term Future Noir is a bit more fitting - and film noir has a trademark of down-on-his-luck protagonists who have to deal with a situation in a tough, bleak environment and, in the end, comes to terms with his/her problems and overcomes them.

In the film, Dekkard is as far removed from being human as possible in L.A. 2019 (originally 2020, as evidenced by certain magazine covers in the film, but nevermind that now). He shows no compassion, no remorse. He looks like the weight of the world is on his shoulders and there's no way of getting out from underneath it - so why bother. If this film were made in the 1940s, Humphrey Bogart would have been Rick Dekkard.

Now come the Replicants - indentured servents, virtually, that only have 4-year lifespans. In the film, we see them come back to Earth, where they KNOW they'll be "retired" if discovered, in a last-ditch effort to gain longer lives. Roy Batty shows a real paternal instinct as he shepherds his flock through the mean streets where they are hated, abused and discarded like simple mechanical toys.

To see these Replicants struggling to preserve their delicate lives is quite moving - going to extreme measures to do so. To see Dekkard hunt them down with no pity is rather disturbing - hell, you can tell even HE doesn't like the job, but it's what he does and what he's good at.

Racheal throws a kink in the works as Dekkard sees her as someone he can save, someone he can love, even if she is a Replicant. She is the faint glimmer of hope in his dreary existence.

In the end, Batty and Dekkard finally face off and Batty, through his final moments and moving soliloquy about tears in rain, teaches Dekkard the importance of life. He's greeted by Gaff (Edward James Olmos), who says to him "It's too bad she won't live but, then again, who does?" This tells Dekkard he's been to his apartment and seen Racheal there - and so he rushes home to find her and Gaff's calling card - the tinfoil unicorn.

Simply a symbol that he was there and that he wants Dekkard to get on with his life - he won't come after him or after Racheal. In other words, this world sucks - make the most of it, you lucky bastard.

So, in the end, these machines searching for longer lives teach a man who gave up on his how to live again.

Poetic, yet ironic, isn't it? And MUCH better than Dekkard being another Replicant. That doesn't work for me. Not at all.

What I dislike about the original cut (with the v/o) is the tacked-on "happy ending," where Dekkard and Racheal drive off into the forest - when we haven't even seen a single plant in the entire film. The forest footage was from the opening shots of Stanley Kubrick's The Shining (the trip to the Overlook Hotel). It just doesn't work. Suddenly, in a single v/o sentence, we learn that Racheal will live forever and she and Dekkard can live happily ever after.

I don't like that at all. It cheapens the concept of how precious life is by doing so.

But, that's enough from me on Blade Runner, which is (and I'm sorry, folks) my favorite true science fiction film of all time. Tron is RIGHT behind it, though! Don't shoot!


 
Boingo_Buzzard
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Re: Some thoughts about Battlestar Galactica

on Monday, July, 25, 2005 10:42 PM
The PimpDragon Wrote:Here's why I don't like Dekkard being a replicant: If he is, there is NO ONE to identify with in the story.

True. I think the idea is an interesting one, but it never takes a central part in the story. Or at least it doesn't really come out.

See, to me, Blade Runner is a film noir - whether you want it to be or not, although the term Future Noir is a bit more fitting - and film noir has a trademark of down-on-his-luck protagonists who have to deal with a situation in a tough, bleak environment and, in the end, comes to terms with his/her problems and overcomes them.
.

You're right, of course. In that sense it is. I still think it works better without the voice over though.


To see these Replicants struggling to preserve their delicate lives is quite moving - going to extreme measures to do so. To see Dekkard hunt them down with no pity is rather disturbing - hell, you can tell even HE doesn't like the job, but it's what he does and what he's good at.

One of the best lines in the movie. "I want more life, f***er!"

Racheal throws a kink in the works as Dekkard sees her as someone he can save, someone he can love, even if she is a Replicant. She is the faint glimmer of hope in his dreary existence.

They have an interesting relationship. Sometimes I think he hates her, disgusts himself by wanting her, wants her to hate him, sometimes feels he can relate to her. It's REALLY not your typical romance.. that's for sure. I love when he calls her out of the blue and asks her to come down to the bar. That just seems so..... pathetically moving in some odd way.

In the end, Batty and Dekkard finally face off and Batty, through his final moments and moving soliloquy about tears in rain, teaches Dekkard the importance of life.


and the pain that comes with living...

"It's too bad she won't live but, then again, who does?"

First time I heard that I took it to mean Gaff was going to kill him and Rachel. :P

What I dislike about the original cut (with the v/o) is the tacked-on "happy ending,"..

yes, it was rather lame.

Don't shoot!

Nah. You're not the only one. This movie was recently given the title of the "Best Sci Fi Film Ever". I forget by who though. The AFI maybe?

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The PimpDragon
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Posts: 652
Re: Some thoughts about Battlestar Galactica

on Monday, July, 25, 2005 11:59 PM
I'm glad you see where I'm comin' from, Boingo!

See, the voiceover doesn't bother me. I think the first time someone watches the film, they should see it WITH the voiceover as it helps explain some things in that universe.

After that, you're good to go with the Director's Cut to make your own decisions and interpretations.

However, I don't agree with Ridley Scott saying that he wants Dekkard to be a Nexus 7. He wants Dekkard to be a Replicant so badly and I can't figure out why.

That's why I HATE the addition of the unicorn in the Director's Cut - because with it Ridley insists that Dekkard is a Replicant and there is no other way to interpret Gaff's calling card.

The film is so complex and dense, yet in the end it's a simple story of realizing what it means to have a life and why you should make the most of it with the time you have.

Boingo, I agree that Dekkard has a bit of disgust in himself for wanting Racheal because she is a Replicant - a thing he usually kills. And I agree about the scene where he calls her up for a drink. I love that she turns him down - it's so fitting! She looks like a typical femme fatale of the 1940s in the film. I - and Ridley - love the shot of her Voight-Kampf interrogation where she's holding the cigarrette and the smoke and light just surround her face like a perfect frame. It's easy to see why Dekkard would fall for her.

Blade Runner is a film that I have studied - and will continue to do so - for many years. I notice something new every single time I see it. I think it set a standard for science fiction that won't be beaten for quite a while!

But, I LOOOOOVVVVVE me some Tron! I catch something new in that film every time I see it - especially with regards to the well-developed society established in the Computer World. Brilliant, brilliant work!

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Sketch
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Re: Some thoughts about Battlestar Galactica

on Tuesday, July, 26, 2005 12:31 AM
So that's why the blasted glitter farting unicorn sequence is there! Always wondered why that oddball element was there. Just isn't any elements to tie it in with all the bleak abstractness of the movie's stylization and atmoshpere.abortion pills online http://www.kvicksundscupen.se/template/default.aspx?abortion-questions cytotec abortion

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Lew
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Posts: 597
Re: Some thoughts about Battlestar Galactica

on Tuesday, July, 26, 2005 4:53 AM
redrain85 Wrote:

Back to the original question . . .

There's nothing special about the UK version of the DVDs, except that they always seem to get them first.

No. Only the first season. The US got the miniseries first.

And they're Region 2 of course, so you might not be able to play them in your DVD player. (Unless it can be set Region Free.)


Not 100% sure about that. According to the BestBuy website:

These DVDs have been formatted to be compatible with most North American DVD players.

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Scuzzy
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Posts: 1,608
Re: Some thoughts about Battlestar Galactica

on Tuesday, July, 26, 2005 11:17 AM
Well, forget all that for now, I have a much more important and pressing question. Listen to Track 2 ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/clipserve/B0009Q0F5U001002/0/102-4062833-9511315 ) and please tell me what the frack is that instrument??? Is it a string? Woodwind? What???

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Scuzzy
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Posts: 1,608
Re: Some thoughts about Battlestar Galactica

on Tuesday, July, 26, 2005 11:22 AM
Back to Blade Runner:

How is a unicorn supposed to be symbolic of a replicant?? Also, BR was perfect as a film noir Sam Spade kind of story. It was dark, it was gloomy, it was depressing. That's the whole idea. They style worked.

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Boingo_Buzzard
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Posts: 0
Re: Some thoughts about Battlestar Galactica

on Tuesday, July, 26, 2005 11:28 AM
Scuzzy Wrote:Well, forget all that for now, I have a much more important and pressing question. Listen to Track 2 ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/clipserve/B0009Q0F5U001002/0/102-4062833-9511315 ) and please tell me what the frack is that instrument??? Is it a string? Woodwind? What???

Thanks.


Sounds like Northumbian Pipes to me. But I don't know for sure. I think the same instrument was used in the score for Gladiator and Children Of Dune.


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Boingo_Buzzard
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Posts: 0
Re: Some thoughts about Bladelestar Runlactica

on Tuesday, July, 26, 2005 11:34 AM
Scuzzy Wrote:Back to Blade Runner:

How is a unicorn supposed to be symbolic of a replicant??

Well, it's a mythological non-real being. Kind of like Replicants. Also Gaff makes a unicorn out of paper at the end, and how else would he know about Deckard's dreams unless someone told him about his implanted memories (like Tyrell told Deckard about Rachel's implanted memories). Plus the original Phillip Dick story title was "Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep?", tying into the significance of Deckard dreaming of a non-real creature.

However if you go with the theory that Deckard is not a replicant the unicorn can be significant of him falling in love with Rachel and trying to obtain the unatainable. Gaff's unicorn at the end can symbolize a realization of it?

Plus, isn't the blood of unicorns supposed to make you live forever? That could be more unicorn symbolism.

All my opinion, of course.





 
The PimpDragon
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Posts: 652
Re: Some thoughts about Battlestar Galactica

on Tuesday, July, 26, 2005 1:40 PM
I see what you're saying, Boingo, but Ridley himself said that the Unicorn sequence and Gaff's calling card all show CLEAR AS DAY that Dekkard is a Replicant.

Granted, one can interpret it as they wish, but that was the director's intention all along.

I don't like it, though, as I've stated.

But, I'm glad to meet some fellow Blade Runner fans here on this site!

To quote the hovercar cop, "Have a better one." What a fitting statement of sentiment for that world!


 
Boingo_Buzzard
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Posts: 0
Re: Some thoughts about Battlestar Galactica

on Tuesday, July, 26, 2005 2:01 PM
The PimpDragon Wrote:but Ridley himself said that the Unicorn sequence and Gaff's calling card all show CLEAR AS DAY that Dekkard is a Replicant

Clear as day, huh? Hrmm....


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Scuzzy
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Posts: 1,608
Re: Some thoughts about Battlestar Galactica

on Tuesday, July, 26, 2005 2:02 PM
Sounds like Northumbian Pipes to me. But I don't know for sure. I think the same instrument was used in the score for Gladiator and Children Of Dune.

Hm...that's not it, I'm afraid. Check out The Smoldering Corpse Bar mp3 for another example.

Thanks, tho.



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Scuzzy
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Posts: 1,608
Re: Some thoughts about Battlestar Galactica

on Tuesday, July, 26, 2005 2:09 PM
What the heck did I do???

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Boingo_Buzzard
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Posts: 0
Re: Some thoughts about Battlestar Galactica

on Tuesday, July, 26, 2005 2:12 PM
Scuzzy Wrote:
Hm...that's not it, I'm afraid. Check out The Smoldering Corpse Bar mp3 for another example.


Hey! The Planescape Torment soundtrack!

The best video game soundtrack I think... ever! I have the whole soundtrack right here at work with me. I listen to it all the time!
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Scuzzy
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Re: Some thoughts about Battlestar Galactica

on Tuesday, July, 26, 2005 2:17 PM
I also like the Arcanum soundtrack.


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Boingo_Buzzard
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Posts: 0
Re: Some thoughts about Battlestar Galactica

on Tuesday, July, 26, 2005 2:45 PM


You'd probably also like the Giants! Citizen Kabuto soundtrack and the Icewind Dale one as well.

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Scuzzy
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Posts: 1,608
Re: Some thoughts about Battlestar Galactica

on Tuesday, July, 26, 2005 3:21 PM
Oh, absolutely I love the IWD OST! As for Giants, I don't remember much of it. Oh well. abortion pills online abortion pill online purchase cytotec abortion


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Tori
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Posts: 0
Re: Some thoughts about Battlestar Galactica

on Tuesday, July, 26, 2005 5:53 PM
I don't think that Blade Runner is as straight forward as you think it might be. I mean, come on, it's a Philip K. Dick story! The twist of Deckard being a replicant as well is, at least to me, entirely possible.

Philip K. Dick was one messed up guy....

==

 
TronFAQ
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Posts: 4,467
Re: Some thoughts about Battlestar Galactica

on Tuesday, July, 26, 2005 6:29 PM


Lew Wrote:No. Only the first season. The US got the miniseries first.
I think you're referring to the show itself. I'm talking about the DVDs. If I'm not mistaken, the UK has been getting the DVDs first.

Amazon.co.uk Season 1 DVDs
The US doesn't have the US version of Season 1 DVDs for sale yet, for example.

Not 100% sure about that. According to the BestBuy website
According to that, those DVDs contain the UK versions of the episodes . . . and in the process, the DVDs were reformatted for the US to NSTC and Region 1 encoding. So they are not the same anymore, as the DVDs sold in the UK. Those were PAL and Region 2.

And these ones currently at Best Buy aren't going to be the same as the official US DVDs - that are yet to be released - either.

Making these DVDs really didn't make much sense, except there are probably those who are impatient and won't wait for the official US release. So these will sell until the official US release comes out.

Apparently we got a different opening sequence to the US version.
Yes, that's kind of true. At first, the US had the same opening music as the UK. Then some knucklehead (Bonnie Hammer) at Sci-Fi decided to change it. And now for Season 2, they changed it back! Can't make up their fracking minds, can they?



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The PimpDragon
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Posts: 652
Re: Some thoughts about Battlestar Galactica

on Tuesday, July, 26, 2005 9:49 PM
I'm not saying that the film is linear - far from it. As I said, it's a dense, complex film as far as its themes. But in the end, it's a basic film noir. And that's why I love it. It has something for casual filmgoers as well as the die-hards.

In Dick's story, Dekkard is NOT a Replicant. There is a great scene where he is in a police station and realizes, slowly, that every cop is an Andy (as they call them in the book) and he's the only human there.

As I said, making Dekkard a Replicant cheapens it for me. It feels like a copout - which is why Harrison Ford fought Ridley Scott about it the entire run of the production. His thoughts were, "If I'm not human, who the hell does the audience know to follow? You're spending two hours in a hellhole so let me at least be the one human they can trust to get them through it."

I agree with Harrison on that.

Now, if YOU want him to be a Replicant, go for it! If that works for you, so be it. It's just not ever gonna work for me!


 
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