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Lightforce
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Lightcycle questions?!

on Monday, August, 16, 2004 4:22 AM
Just a couple of days ago I watched again, this time with the audio commentary. Something that made me think when I first time saw was the dilemma of lightcycles. When Tron, Flynn & Ram escape from the grid, they have these cycles: Tron-yellow, Flynn-orange, Ram-red. Then they stop somewhere and the cycles disappear. How do they make the cycles disappear, as they first time appear when Sark pushes the cycle button? Then, after a while, they're back riding the cycles, but this time Tron has the orange one instead of Flynn.
So, you wise programs around here, tell me how they make the cycles disappear and appear again and why does the cycle color change? Do Tron & Flynn just switch cycles for a change?
(Btw, if the word 'bicycle' is shortened as 'bike', shouldn't 'lightcycle' be 'like' then? )


 
Flynn316
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Posts: 192
Re: Lightcycle questions?!

on Monday, August, 16, 2004 2:34 PM
Tron's lightcycle is always orange, but at times it looks yellow. Flynn always had a yellow lightcycle. As for how they made the cycles diappear and re-appear outside the game grid, you're guess is as good as mine.

This town is full of live ones!!















 
TheReelTodd
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Posts: 0
Re: Lightcycle questions?!

on Monday, August, 16, 2004 7:33 PM
I agree with Flynn316 on the color issue. Seems to be a slight color continuity error on the image processing end, and not necessarily some unexplainable part of the story itself

The other issue - light cycle control. Sark initiates the light cycles on the game grid by pressing the button. When the button is pressed, the light cycle rods materialize and TRON, Flynn, and RAM grab hold of them just before the cycles rez in around them. On the game grid, the game participants have little control over the cycles themselves, other than the 90 degree angles they turn (and maybe some speed control) - this is more than likely a property of the game grid "rules", or how the cycle units behave within the constraints of the game grid area itself. Once the game grid escape takes place, the constraints of the game grid no longer apply - the jet walls are gone, the cycles are no longer confined to right angle turns, and the cycle "rods" are now under the full control of the programs themselves. Starting, stopping, turning, rezzing-out and rezzing-in are now under the control of the program that is in possession of the light cycle rod, and is no longer limited or controlled by Sark or any other control program.

That's my take on it, anyway




 
IsoLine
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Re: Lightcycle questions?!

on Monday, August, 16, 2004 8:31 PM
TheReelTodd Wrote:I agree with Flynn316 on the color issue. Seems to be a slight color continuity error on the image processing end, and not necessarily some unexplainable part of the story itself

The other issue - light cycle control. Sark initiates the light cycles on the game grid by pressing the button. When the button is pressed, the light cycle rods materialize and TRON, Flynn, and RAM grab hold of them just before the cycles rez in around them. On the game grid, the game participants have little control over the cycles themselves, other than the 90 degree angles they turn (and maybe some speed control) - this is more than likely a property of the game grid "rules", or how the cycle units behave within the constraints of the game grid area itself. Once the game grid escape takes place, the constraints of the game grid no longer apply - the jet walls are gone, the cycles are no longer confined to right angle turns, and the cycle "rods" are now under the full control of the programs themselves. Starting, stopping, turning, rezzing-out and rezzing-in are now under the control of the program that is in possession of the light cycle rod, and is no longer limited or controlled by Sark or any other control program.

That's my take on it, anyway

Well I know around that time color matching with computer graphics with film wasn't as perfect as it is today. So you were bound to get color variations and such, that plus depending on the film and cameras used to film both sequences, well you could have what is known as "color temperature" variances all over the place. I am willing to suspend disbelief on the materialization issue but it still begs the question. How? We see the rods spark away as they disengage the cycles to take their little energy break and discuss the I/O Tower. How do they get the rods back?


"Word to the Motherboard!" - IsoLine
 
Lightforce
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Re: Lightcycle questions?!

on Tuesday, August, 17, 2004 4:21 AM
Sorry, I had a mistake on my first post. The colors of the cycles at the start were Flynn-yellow, Tron-orange, Ram-red. Sorry about that.
Something that mixed me up even more was when I downloaded a paper model of a lightcycle from the net. The page told the cycle was Flynn's, but it was orange, thus being actually Tron's. Yesterday I took a closer look on the lightcycle shot, viewing it frame by frame.
Yes, I understand the coloring problems and color temperature changes, but there IS actually at least one totally visible color mistake. When our trio gets the escape hole on the grid wall, we clearly see that Flynn goes in the hole first, then Tron and last Ram. But, when we see those guys driving at the narrow hole just before they get out, it can be easily seen that Flynn, who was supposed to be in front, has orange cycle, Tron on the middle has a very yellow, almost greenish cycle and Ram has the red as usual.
Another small mistake I spotted was at the scene, where they first get out their cycles. At first there's only Flynn at the picture, holding the glowy rod of his cycle. But, just one frame before the movie cuts to all three, as viewed frame by frame, we can clearly see that Flynn's glowy rod stops glowing and then lights up again.

Sorry, if I'm totally wrong, because my memory isn't the best. But I'm 88 % sure about that color change I just told.


 
Prankster bit
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Re: Lightcycle questions?!

on Tuesday, August, 17, 2004 12:44 PM

i still don't understand why flynn, tron and ram had the coloured cycles [i use that term very loosely, as all lightcycles are coloured.]. surely if they're blue programs, then they should have blue lightcycles. that's how it works in tron 2.0, so surely it mush've worked like that 20 years before tron 2.0

am i right? or am i right?

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Nikster
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Re: Lightcycle questions?!

on Tuesday, August, 17, 2004 1:16 PM
Prankster bit Wrote:
i still don't understand why flynn, tron and ram had the coloured cycles [i use that term very loosely, as all lightcycles are coloured.]. surely if they're blue programs, then they should have blue lightcycles. that's how it works in tron 2.0, so surely it mush've worked like that 20 years before tron 2.0

am i right? or am i right?
That's because at one point, the 'good guy/bad guy' colors were not decided upon (at one point the bad guys were gonna be blue )

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Prankster bit
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Re: Lightcycle questions?!

on Tuesday, August, 17, 2004 3:18 PM

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words of wisdom from...

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Ripstar13
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Re: Lightcycle questions?!

on Tuesday, August, 17, 2004 6:31 PM
Maybe the colour of the lightcycles in the movie was denoted by the experience of the programs using them? Tron was very good at all the games on the grid so he had a orange Lightcycle as a symbol of his experience on the grid? Me is only guessing here. . .But as RAM says . . .You gotta be good in the games if you want to survive


 
harpo989
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Re: Lightcycle questions?!

on Tuesday, August, 17, 2004 7:42 PM
Nikster is right- the colors are switched in that scene.
and the reason the cycles are different colors is a phsycological thing. each of the heros has a specific cycle color so you can say, 'Look out Flynn!' and the like; indentify with the charachters. the opposing cyclists are all straight out blue because they're just the bad guys- noone special.

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Lightforce
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Re: Lightcycle questions?!

on Wednesday, August, 18, 2004 4:11 AM
You're got interesting opinions, but I still don't have a direct answer to my questions.
Another shot I watched very closely was the scene, where Flynn & companions walk past the grid (after ring-game, in which Crom passes away), where Tron fights against four opponents. I watched this shot frame by frame, and I saw some strange movements in Tron's disc. You'd better see them by yourselves, there's much strange side-flares (like in 20th Anniversary DVD counting 42.19, can be seen only in one frame, some frames after that there's also similar effects).
One thing I can tell you, is the moment when Tron throws his disc to derezz one of his opponents on the right. After the disc hits the opponent, he falls down and Tron's disc keeps moving on. The disc flies a little bit to the left, then it suddenly (viewed frame by frame) disappears. After the opponent derezzes, the disc appears again, almost from the right upper corner, far right from where it disappeared. The disc moves slowly a little bit to the left, and then the blue flare following the disc appears at the right corner. The black unlighted disc stops and "waits" for the blue flare. After they unite, the disc continues moving.

I like movie mistakes, they are so funny to spot. I understand it's very hard to make a special effects movie without any mistakes, I guess it's impossible!
If you have more mistakes from , I'd love to know!




 
IsoLine
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Re: Lightcycle questions?!

on Wednesday, August, 18, 2004 6:25 AM
Lightforce Wrote:You're got interesting opinions, but I still don't have a direct answer to my questions.
Another shot I watched very closely was the scene, where Flynn & companions walk past the grid (after ring-game, in which Crom passes away), where Tron fights against four opponents. I watched this shot frame by frame, and I saw some strange movements in Tron's disc. You'd better see them by yourselves, there's much strange side-flares (like in 20th Anniversary DVD counting 42.19, can be seen only in one frame, some frames after that there's also similar effects).
One thing I can tell you, is the moment when Tron throws his disc to derezz one of his opponents on the right. After the disc hits the opponent, he falls down and Tron's disc keeps moving on. The disc flies a little bit to the left, then it suddenly (viewed frame by frame) disappears. After the opponent derezzes, the disc appears again, almost from the right upper corner, far right from where it disappeared. The disc moves slowly a little bit to the left, and then the blue flare following the disc appears at the right corner. The black unlighted disc stops and "waits" for the blue flare. After they unite, the disc continues moving.

I like movie mistakes, they are so funny to spot. I understand it's very hard to make a special effects movie without any mistakes, I guess it's impossible!
If you have more mistakes from , I'd love to know!


Well, I vaguely recollect them showing Tron's disc return to him a few times during that scene. However that was when I saw it at the theater, and since the video release, alot of that footage may have been snipped for brevity. I know there was one shot during that disc battle where they showed Bruce catch the disc backhanded and not an over the shoulder backhand catch either, it was more casual like the disc flew back to his opposite hand, but alas, those cuts seem to be gone from the print now. Lost for all time. So probably what you were seeing was one of the cuts that they made when his disc was in the process of returning to him. How did you like the scene where the memory guard gets hit with Tron's disc, spins around and then disappears with none of the typical derezz light effects. I thought that was kinda weird and a possible error they missed.


"Word to the Motherboard!" - IsoLine
 
Lightforce
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Re: Lightcycle questions?!

on Wednesday, August, 18, 2004 6:28 AM
Yes, I did notice that strange derezzing too.

By the way, what does "GORT KLAATU BARADA NIKTO" mean? That reads in the wall of Alan's cubicle. I'm not too sure about that "nikto", because it's hard to see even if I zoom the picture with my dvd player, that's just my best guess.
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harpo989
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Re: Lightcycle questions?!

on Wednesday, August, 18, 2004 4:50 PM
"GORT! KLAATU BARADA NIKTO" is a line from the movie 'The day the earth stood still'.
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Traahn
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Re: Lightcycle questions?!

on Wednesday, August, 18, 2004 11:22 PM
How did you like the scene where the memory guard gets hit with Tron's disc, spins around and then disappears with none of the typical derezz light effects. I thought that was kinda weird and a possible error they missed.

I loved that part! I like the spinning around and eye effects. I think it was a foreshadow of the MCP. You know how, toward the end, the MCP is spinning around and you see his eyes in a similar manner? I think of the MCP when I see the guard spinning around and I like that it was only used that one time.

I like how the movie uses different derez effects. For example, I like it when Ram peacefully derezzes into the floor.

I was sad to see Tron 2.0 (the game) only have one or two de-rez effects. One actually, I think. During beta testing for the game, I suggested a few things that I thought would've been great for the game to have. Two of the more important ones for me were:

* The game needing more de-rez effects when killing enemies.
* Needing more dynamic environments. For the movie, the commentary mentions they made little digital effects and light traces in practically every scene to add life/action. Although the Tron 2.0 environments have several things going on throughout, I feel it could've used more. I wanted to see little traces of light quickly zipping along the bases of walls. I wanted to be able to get into an I/O tower beam and look up, even hold my disc up and just stand there. More interactivity with panels, buttons and the such. More responses from and interaction with neutral NCPs. But the big ones for me were the random light traces and the I/O tower thing.


I'm getting out of here right now, and you guys are invited. -----^
 
IsoLine
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Re: Lightcycle questions?!

on Thursday, August, 19, 2004 5:37 PM
Traahn Wrote:
How did you like the scene where the memory guard gets hit with Tron's disc, spins around and then disappears with none of the typical derezz light effects. I thought that was kinda weird and a possible error they missed.

I loved that part! I like the spinning around and eye effects. I think it was a foreshadow of the MCP. You know how, toward the end, the MCP is spinning around and you see his eyes in a similar manner? I think of the MCP when I see the guard spinning around and I like that it was only used that one time.

I like how the movie uses different derez effects. For example, I like it when Ram peacefully derezzes into the floor.

I was sad to see Tron 2.0 (the game) only have one or two de-rez effects. One actually, I think. During beta testing for the game, I suggested a few things that I thought would've been great for the game to have. Two of the more important ones for me were:

* The game needing more de-rez effects when killing enemies.
* Needing more dynamic environments. For the movie, the commentary mentions they made little digital effects and light traces in practically every scene to add life/action. Although the Tron 2.0 environments have several things going on throughout, I feel it could've used more. I wanted to see little traces of light quickly zipping along the bases of walls. I wanted to be able to get into an I/O tower beam and look up, even hold my disc up and just stand there. More interactivity with panels, buttons and the such. More responses from and interaction with neutral NCPs. But the big ones for me were the random light traces and the I/O tower thing.

Well, they did have some nifty random effects show up in the game too from time to time. I still remember the mission right after you finish training and you find the first optimizer and there are a "school" of polygons floating in the sky like fish, swimming up in the air. Pretty cool if you ask me
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KiaPurity
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Re: Lightcycle questions?!

on Thursday, August, 19, 2004 6:26 PM
No wonder why I screw up on the lightcycle questions so much!

Kia: Cool. I'm a infamous mythological perfect User.

 
Traahn
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Re: Lightcycle questions?!

on Thursday, August, 19, 2004 7:25 PM
Yep, I love that 'school' of polygon spaceships that fly over too! I wish more of those one-time random things happened throughout the game. I reloaded that part several times just to watch them... ahhhh, isn't that sweet?


I'm getting out of here right now, and you guys are invited. -----^
 
foilism
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Re: Lightcycle questions?!

on Saturday, August, 21, 2004 4:25 PM
Ello'! I remember a pretty good discussion on the dilemmas of lighcycles, their programs and usage limitations. I think we were talking about how the programs got the cycles past the grid, that they'd been written onto the programs tron, flynn + Ram, someone said that and i digged that - kind of an upgrade if you will. Once written on a program has all its software, can call it up or shut it down, just like a weapon in tron 2.0.order abortion pill abortion pill buy online where to buy abortion pillwhere to buy abortion pill ordering abortion pills to be shipped to house buy abortion pill online


 
Omega.User
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Re: Lightcycle questions?!

on Saturday, August, 21, 2004 4:50 PM
I think we were talking about how the programs got the cycles past the grid, that they'd been written onto the programs tron, flynn + Ram, someone said that and i digged that - kind of an upgrade if you will. Once written on a program has all its software, can call it up or shut it down, just like a weapon in tron 2.0.

You mean like a patch or an add on to the programs. Yeah I have considered that too.

How come the cycle trails are only there wihile on the grid?

Just think of what it would be like with trails NOT only on the grid.

Tron: Ready?
Ram: Ready.
...
SO LONG SUCKER.
Tank guy: AAAAAHH!



And by the way in the scene where Sark is leaving the carrier and taking all the old programs to the MCP and it gets to a part where you see dumont a gaurd and another old guy.

2nd old guy= I-no?

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