Kat User
 Posts: 2,395 | Ring game in T82 on Thursday, July, 12, 2012 12:14 AM
Yes, programs, I am about to commit sacrilege and begin to pick apart T82 as thoroughly as we have T:L. It's only fair.
One thing that has always bothered me in that film is the ring game. Flynn and Crom start it out practically joking. Uh, guys? This is not a friendly tennis match. You're about to play a game to the death, and you're going to have to try your damndest to kill someone-- not even one of the bad guys but just an ordinary dude like yourself-- so you can survive. You must be aware of this fact, but your dialogue does not convince me of that.
I'll excuse Flynn, because I think he DOESN'T know. He thinks he's just going to play a game. So his smiles and wisecracks make sense at first; he thinks he's gonna win, thump Crom on the back, and they'll go have a drink or something.
Crom, however, must have some idea how it works. I would not be smiling at any point, nor speaking in such a lighthearted tone as he is sometimes. I would be deadly serious and terrified. (I suspect, judging from the version of the script that's online, that he's supposed to be acting nervous, but it doesn't come across. They should've just told him to play it straight: "look, you're about to die and you're scared shitless, okay? Just do it like that, 'cause subtle emotion's not working for you, dude.")
Even Flynn seems on the slow side. Let's review this, mmkay? You're standing on these platforms and when you look down it is probably a loooong way down. Not hard to figure out that you don't want to take that plunge. When your platform is hit, part of it disappears. You are in more danger of falling every time. So why is it that it isn't until Sark tells Flynn to kill Crom that he manages to figure it out and refuses to play anymore? Mind you, at this point Crom's hanging there, barely, and about to fall, and Flynn's still not concerned yet. He's standing there like, "yeah, this chubby dude's about to pop back up here any minute. Any second now. He's gonna do it. Yup. Just waiting. About to happen... wait for it... "
Am I missing something essential in this scene that would explain why neither one of them grasps the gravity of the situation???
What do you want? I'm busy.
Program, please!
Chaos.... good news. |
KingJ.exe User
 Posts: 390 | RE: Ring game in T82 on Thursday, July, 12, 2012 1:00 AM
I think Crom grasped it, he was just confident that he was going to win, and Flynn would lose. He was wrong, unfortunately. I think Flynn must have thought that there was some sort of safety net or something down there, to keep the players safe, and was being chivalrous to Crom, not kicking his butt when he was defenseless. When Sark told him to "finish the game", he realized it was a deathmatch in the most literal way, and refused to play anymore.
Watch me stream TRON 2.0 on my YouTube channel!
https://gaming.youtube.com/channel/UCvvT-h8JK4w1xgKavs35WHg/live
Find the archive here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLf9ZcCtZm_CjonNAjms4wKN-p6UuiCMgZ |
Kat User
 Posts: 2,395 | RE: Ring game in T82 on Thursday, July, 12, 2012 8:06 AM
I read Crom completely differently. I think he was being totally honest when he told the guards he wasn't athletic... I think he knew there was a good chance he wouldn't be walking out of that arena. When he says to Flynn something like "So I bet you think you're going to beat me pretty easily, eh? [cause I'm the chubby bank guy]" it sounds like posturing to me. That's why I figured he was just supposed to be nervous, and the actor was not pulling it off too well (plus, that's the type of nervous I'd be if I were doing something athletic at the Olympics, but not the type I'd be if I were going to die if I lost).order abortion pill morning after pill price where to buy abortion pillwhere to buy abortion pill ordering abortion pills to be shipped to house buy abortion pill online
What do you want? I'm busy.
Program, please!
Chaos.... good news. |
KingJ.exe User
 Posts: 390 | RE: Ring game in T82 on Thursday, July, 12, 2012 9:19 AM
The way I thought of it was that we don't know how long Crom had been there playing games. We see him lose to Sark and somehow survive. He may have been one of the best of the ring game. Flynn was a newbie who had no experience as far as Crom knew. Crom thought he had an advantage.
Watch me stream TRON 2.0 on my YouTube channel!
https://gaming.youtube.com/channel/UCvvT-h8JK4w1xgKavs35WHg/live
Find the archive here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLf9ZcCtZm_CjonNAjms4wKN-p6UuiCMgZ |
emdeesee User
![]() Posts: 218 | RE: Ring game in T82 on Thursday, July, 12, 2012 10:26 AM
Kat wrote:
Am I missing something essential in this scene that would explain why neither one of them grasps the gravity of the situation??? |
Har!
I think you're right about Flynn, that he's clueless and (one imagines) experiencing a fair amount of shock at his situation. Any weirdness in his reactions can be chalked up to that. There's a lot going on with Crom, though.
At first, I think he's trying to project a bravado he doesn't feel, covering desperation. It's one of his first games, if not his first, and they've matched him up with a fellow conscript. To Crom, who doesn't know Flynn from any other program, Flynn is a traitor, probably being tested before joining the warrior elite of the MCP. Why else would Crom's opponent be blue instead of red? He must imagine he's matched against someone Sark has assessed as having some talent, too. The giveaway is Crom's line, "You think you're going to wipe me right out, don't you?" This is something someone who sees himself as the underdog would say. A truly confident combatant would probably just keep his mouth shut, or maybe say, "I'm going to wipe you right out!"
While Flynn is still processing the accusation, Crom attacks pretty aggressively. This, too, strikes me as somewhat desperate.
For most of the rest of the game, Crom is actually winning, and he projects sense of his impending victory, some hope, and relief that he might make it out of this round alive.
But then...
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EXODUS User
 Posts: 573 | RE: Ring game in T82 on Thursday, July, 12, 2012 2:20 PM
Oh, interesting topic!
I know there’s been a some people on here (and elsewhere I would imagine) that were a bit disappointed with Legacy having so many problems with plot holes, continuity, etc, so it will interesting to see what comes up on here.
One thing I do like about Legacy was that the writers have managed to get rid of some of the more, to put it mildly, ‘Stranger Aspects’ of the first film-the visual/conceptual elements of the film that I, personally thought were slightly odd looking.
For example, when Tron & Yori were making their way to the I/O Tower and they see the obsolete Data Pushers (or “Weirdo’s” ), and they’re all look like light bulbs, computer chips, faceless monks or big hairy things that look something from Sesame Street.
Also, Sark being given the MCP’s power and then turning into a giant with black eyes.
Even the MCP looks fantastical-a huge, shimmering rotating pillar of light with a face on it (which turned out in fact to be an old ‘man’ typing away on some kind of typewriter thing-if Dillinger created the MCP, why doesn’t it look like him?).
Elements like this were done mostly for just visual effect rather a sense of logic-Sark has grown more powerful because of the MCP, so he then grows to a huge size to represent this this, whilst the Data Pushers are just the writers/producers showing the audience what a strange, wonderful fantasy world this is (again, it’s mostly the VISUAL aspect that’s emphasised here rather then the NARRATIVE).
Legacy, (and Evolution/Betrayal has well to a certain extent), have managed to ‘cut back’ a lot on the more fantasy-looking elements to make The Grid look more sleeker & stylish then the first film-no black eyed giants, ’weirdo’ looking Data Pushers, insect like Gridbugs, etc.
The way they’ve created The Grid is to make it look more ‘streamlined’ and elegant then the old Encom system of the first film-even the ISOs look like they ’related’ (cousins, has it were) to the mostly black-suited Basic programs then some guy dressed like a light bulb or a hairy Muppet.
This is understandable really-after all, this is the 21st century, and we’ve come a long way from the brightly coloured Pac-Man style arcade games of the early 80s….
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MCPcomputer User
 Posts: 1,945 | RE: Ring game in T82 on Thursday, July, 12, 2012 9:04 PM
I think you're right Kat.. he didn't know how serious the situation was.. and how crazy things would probably be getting after a while...
But yes this is just something a bit crazy yet very good..
I think Flynn did think it was just a game..
the they would drink pure source later after the game was over...
but when Sark told him Finish the Game... the game truly changed..
and Flynn did not want to derezz a fellow program...
"I want him in the games until he dies playing" -MCP
The Grid a Physical Frontier funny Tron Videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaMViP_QtZ8 |
Kat User
 Posts: 2,395 | RE: Ring game in T82 on Thursday, July, 12, 2012 9:42 PM
emdeesee Wrote:Kat wrote:
Am I missing something essential in this scene that would explain why neither one of them grasps the gravity of the situation??? |
Har!
I think you're right about Flynn, that he's clueless and (one imagines) experiencing a fair amount of shock at his situation. Any weirdness in his reactions can be chalked up to that. There's a lot going on with Crom, though.
At first, I think he's trying to project a bravado he doesn't feel, covering desperation. It's one of his first games, if not his first, and they've matched him up with a fellow conscript. To Crom, who doesn't know Flynn from any other program, Flynn is a traitor, probably being tested before joining the warrior elite of the MCP. Why else would Crom's opponent be blue instead of red? He must imagine he's matched against someone Sark has assessed as having some talent, too. The giveaway is Crom's line, "You think you're going to wipe me right out, don't you?" This is something someone who sees himself as the underdog would say. A truly confident combatant would probably just keep his mouth shut, or maybe say, "I'm going to wipe you right out!"
While Flynn is still processing the accusation, Crom attacks pretty aggressively. This, too, strikes me as somewhat desperate.
For most of the rest of the game, Crom is actually winning, and he projects sense of his impending victory, some hope, and relief that he might make it out of this round alive.
But then...
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YES, this exactly is what I was trying to say. Though I thought Crom was losing. He seems to have fewer rings on his side at the end. I'd have to go back and watch it again and really follow the ball though, I suppose.
I've wondered, too, exactly how much Crom truly did understand. He does ask Ram what he's doing there... which makes sense. If he'd come from the Encom system, he'd know immediately what goes on in the Games, but Ram has to tell him he's going to get sent down "to have the bits blasted out of you." Still, after that he must have some idea. Though maybe he doesn't realize that fighting one of your own is not usual. Flynn certainly hasn't a clue. (I actually recently wrote a piece in which Tron's reflecting on Crom briefly for just this reason-- Tron's thinking that there are some like himself who are openly defiant and know what they're dying for, but others like Crom don't really have a clue, and they're just thrown into it by an innocent remark about the users but no desire to actually be dissident.)
EXODUS Wrote:Oh, interesting topic!
I know there’s been a some people on here (and elsewhere I would imagine) that were a bit disappointed with Legacy having so many problems with plot holes, continuity, etc, so it will interesting to see what comes up on here.
|
That is one of my beefs with the original, yes. I can't knock it too much since I think much of the focus was on the effects and just on introducing a new concept, but when you really think about it, there IS a lot that they seem to have thrown in just because "hey, this seems cool!" Even though it makes little sense. And yes, I do think it about the inoperative data pushers and the gridbugs that you mentioned, though those aren't the only things. T82 has at least as many plot holes as T:L, but we never talk about it. (I do still long for a dedicated board like T:L and T:U have, I'm just saying...) And I'm perfectly willing to discuss it, esp. since most of the stuff about T:L has already been done to death... multiple times. What do you want? I'm busy.
Program, please!
Chaos.... good news. |
Traahn User
 Posts: 3,305 | RE: Ring game in T82 on Friday, July, 13, 2012 2:54 AM
Picking apart the original Tron is kinda mean. I think it'd be better to put the rose-colored glasses back on and just accept it for what it is. on line abortion pill misoprostol dose abortion medical abortion pill online
              
I'm getting out of here right now, and you guys are invited.  -----^ |
Kat User
 Posts: 2,395 | RE: Ring game in T82 on Friday, July, 13, 2012 7:19 PM
Please tell me that's sarcasm.
What do you want? I'm busy.
Program, please!
Chaos.... good news. |
emdeesee User
![]() Posts: 218 | RE: Ring game in T82 on Friday, July, 13, 2012 8:43 PM
Traahn Wrote:Picking apart the original Tron is just mean. I think it'd be better to put the rose-colored glasses back on and just accept it for what it is. That is, unless you want the innocent magic and wonder of it completely desroyed. Then again, maybe none of you find the original Tron special and have no problem analytically poking fun at it and ripping it apart, which I could then understand. |
...So once someone has said "Tron is great! I love Tron!" this site is over? Because, man, I'm not gonna lie to you, I think that's already happened.
If we can't skewer our own sacred cows, whose sacred cows can we skewer? Why would you bother to ruminate on, pick apart, and analyze a movie that you don't think is special?
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BanditTron User
 Posts: 402 | RE: Ring game in T82 on Friday, July, 13, 2012 9:42 PM
KingJ.exe Wrote:The way I thought of it was that we don't know how long Crom had been there playing games. We see him lose to Sark and somehow survive. He may have been one of the best of the ring game. Flynn was a newbie who had no experience as far as Crom knew. Crom thought he had an advantage. |
^
This guy.
That is the same way I have always read it ever since I first saw it in 82.
Ram does tell Crom that "They'll train you for the games, but ...."
So that means that he was trained in how to play the games and most likely got good at them. I mean, he nearly took Flynn out on the first shot. (a bit due to Flynn's inexperience with "other side of the screen" gaming.)
So really we don't know how many cycles Crom has been playing since Flynn has gotten to The Grid but he definitely knows what he is doing now and was sure of himself against this noob.
That's my take.
The Sark thing where he grew big. On my recent viewing during the 30th celebration I kinda had a thought. Sark wasn't derezzed when his head was damaged so he was near derezzing. Then the MCP gave Sark's body all his power. Kinda giving the MCP a "body" to use since it wasn't really Sark anymore. (hence the darkened) eyes. And thus he became the Grid's first ZOMBIE! (Thanks to The Walking Dead for inpiring that line of thought)
Now...one thing that confused me and still to this day does is the "old guy on the typewriter" as the MCP. What and who was that? Why was it this old guy and not Dillinger, as stated in one of the above posts, as the MCP?
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Kat User
 Posts: 2,395 | RE: Ring game in T82 on Sunday, July, 15, 2012 2:55 PM
I had assumed Crom had just gotten there that same day, and he and Flynn were in their first match together. Especially since he doesn't seem fazed to go up against another new recruit, as if he doesn't know that's unusual. Unless he thinks it's just more training, hence why he's not as serious about it as you might think if he expected he could die.
Old guy in stone at the end: I only noticed that on this most recent viewing, and wondered what it was all about as well.order abortion pill abortion pill buy online where to buy abortion pill
What do you want? I'm busy.
Program, please!
Chaos.... good news. |
emdeesee User
![]() Posts: 218 | RE: Ring game in T82 on Sunday, July, 15, 2012 5:30 PM
BanditTron Wrote:
Now...one thing that confused me and still to this day does is the "old guy on the typewriter" as the MCP. What and who was that? Why was it this old guy and not Dillinger, as stated in one of the above posts, as the MCP?
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The MCP was not Dillinger's program. The MCP said, "No one user wrote me, I'm worth millions of their man years." The program in the with the keyboard at the bitter end was probably the chess program that was apparently the basic framework for what eventually became the MCP.
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LWSrocks2 User
 Posts: 416 | RE: Ring game in T82 on Monday, July, 16, 2012 10:55 AM
Kat Wrote:Let's review this, mmkay? |

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EXODUS User
 Posts: 573 | RE: Ring game in T82 on Thursday, July, 19, 2012 10:54 AM
emdeesee Wrote:BanditTron Wrote:
Now...one thing that confused me and still to this day does is the "old guy on the typewriter" as the MCP. What and who was that? Why was it this old guy and not Dillinger, as stated in one of the above posts, as the MCP?
|
The MCP was not Dillinger's program. The MCP said, "No one user wrote me, I'm worth millions of their man years." The program in the with the keyboard at the bitter end was probably the chess program that was apparently the basic framework for what eventually became the MCP. |
With regards to the whole ‘typewriter and aged face’ thing I can think of two things:
The typewriter represents the endless stream of calculations that such a large, highly complex program like that does constantly.
And the aged face thing represents just how different it has become since it was first created. Like Clu, the MCP is UNIQUE, and stands quite apart from the more normal programs. It is quite old, lets not forget (to quote Dumont “…old enough to remember when the MCP was just a chess program”), so it’s been running for quite a few years by then.
And it has evolved to-”I have gotten 1257 times smarter since then” and “no one User created me, I’m worth millions of their man years”.
Maybe all this increasing power, sophistication & influence has had some adverse effect on it, which results in some kind of ‘ageing process’ (although they still should have David Warner to have done, wearing a lot of make-up of course).
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BanditTron User
 Posts: 402 | RE: Ring game in T82 on Thursday, July, 19, 2012 10:25 PM
^
That will work for me. The explanation makes sense.
Makes me wonder now how that part was written in the original script.
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Kat User
 Posts: 2,395 | RE: Ring game in T82 on Thursday, July, 19, 2012 11:01 PM
In an older version ( http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/TRON.html):
620 SHOT OF THE MCP 620
We see something materializing in the apex of the energy cones. It
is dressed like Dumont was at the I/0 Tower, an old man in the
padded altar costume, spinning, slowly, finally stopping. We see the
wizened, wrinkled face of the true MCP for just a few seconds, and
see that he is furiosly TYPING on an old Remington portable. Then he
too dissolves into liquid energy, and disappears. The cylinder of
the MCP glows brighter and brighter.
621 YORI AND THE BIT 621
on the bridge of the carrier looking down at this.
622 HER POV 622
A fountain of energy explodes upwards like a Supernova, right at the
camera.
623 YORI 623
shielding her face from the power of the blast.
624 LONG SHOT 624
The nova of energy bursting upwards. We start to see the glow
returning to the surrounding domains, as the nova dissipates,
leaving the sky full of sparkling stars.
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Program, please!
Chaos.... good news. |
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