Kat
User
Posts: 2,395 | Parallels between programs/humans
on Saturday, March, 31, 2012 2:44 PM
I don't know if any of the writers of either film ever intended this, but I think about it sometimes.
What similarities are there between us and programs?
Are we programmed with certain directives? Why do you like what you like/are good at what you're good at/do what you do? For me, one of them is music. I can't imagine my life without it. It gets inside me in ways other things don't; I do it without thinking of it [I've found before that I can think about a song and suddenly notice I'm singing it; I just instinctively make music at times]; I turn to it at difficult times; I obsess over it sometimes (whether it's something I'm thinking of writing, performing/recording, or just a certain piece at a certain time); I can sometimes read a poem and have music for it start composing itself in my head, etc. It is the thing I'm most in tune with (no pun intended). It's not my profession, I'm not necessarily great at it (which I admit I recognize in part being due to a lack of self-discipline in working hard at it, and a lack of formal instruction as a child to train me up starting when my body/voice were most malleable and to stop bad habits before they started-- probably in part because I always saw it as a natural extension of myself rather than something to be cultivated). But along with some other things, it feels almost like a directive.
Some people just seem "meant" to do certain things, whether it's art, or they've always wanted to be a doctor or firefighter, or whatever. Some might term it as a "calling." Where does it come from?
How much say do we have over our personalities? (I have no desire to open up the nature vs. nurture debate, but roll with this.) Are we born with certain traits inherent?
I've addressed it in fic, when my character (Elise) is talking to Dillinjr and he argues that humans and programs are nothing alike, because programs are coded (she explains it pretty well, so here it is):
"...And besides, you have been here long enough to know that programs are like you and me. They can think, laugh, feel pain, and yes, love."
"But... everything they seem to be, that's just their programming."
"What do you think a a personality is, Edward? What dictates who you and I are? Do you think I'm any more likely to say 'Bach's music sucks' or vote conservative than Tron is to de-rez an innocent program walking down the street? But what's stopping me? How is what makes me Elise any different than what makes Tron, Tron? Explain to me what decides who we are, Edward. It's not physical. It's not entirely attributable to my upbringing or my life experiences. So why don't I listen to rap music and watch car racing on TV and spend more time thinking about what a celebrity is wearing today than about current events? Do you know who or what programmed us, Edward? I don't. Think about it, Edward. What’s so different between them and us?”
“They’re… programs. They’re written in code.” I nodded in agreement.
“And us?”
“Well… we’re flesh and blood. We’re… not written by anyone. Even if you believe in God, we’re not individually written. We’re not programmed.”
“No? Brush me up on ninth-grade science, Edward. What’s the human body made up of?”
“Well, it’s mostly water, and…”
“No, I mean… cells, right? How do those work?”
“Well, they reproduce, and as cells die, new ones are created to replace them. Nothing like programs.”
“How does a cell know what it’s supposed to be?” He thought for a moment.
“DNA tells it.”
“Ah. What’s DNA, exactly?”
“Proteins, enzymes, amino acids.”
“And it’s all programmed to do specific things, isn’t it? Your DNA contains the coding to make Edward Dillinger. It’s just, your proteins and enzymes and amino acids, rather than bits and ones and zeros.” His eyes widened. I smiled. “Now you’re starting to see. They’re not less than us, Edward. Just different. And not even all that different.”
Does she have a point?
Are we more like programs-- or they more like us-- than we would initially think?
Discuss away.
What do you want? I'm busy.
Program, please!
Chaos.... good news.
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J
User
Posts: 248 | RE: Parallels between programs/humans
on Wednesday, April, 04, 2012 3:59 PM
I try to take the opposite tack. They look human, they act human in many regards, but they are a very different species. Mind you, most of this is head canon.
Much of human philosophy and progress is based around the fact that most of us do not get direct contact with our creators. We spend a lot of art, energy, thought, trying to guess what God's thinking, or if there is a God at all. We have spent much bloodshed and nastiness to each other over our interpretation of God's messages...if they are God's messages at all.
The Programs do not have this guesswork. They know their creators. They know what their Users expect of them. They have regular contact with their creators, They have directives. They cannot surpass their directives, but they do have some degree of adaptation to extreme circumstances (Ram - GREAT example). However, short of rectification, or the prospect of being arcade fodder, there isn't a way to change a program's career.
They also have, by our standards, a short life span - 5 years or so. (Thinking of real-world programs). While there are couplings, love, and friendships, they cannot reproduce as we would - there are no children (I'm thinking of Ma3a only being able to understand the term "father" as "earlier version"). There are no families as we know them. Judging from the deleted scene and the script bits for it (aka "the gift that keeps on giving"), they do have a concept of sex, but it's probably for solidifying bonds or pleasure. It's also a dice-roll as to whether their humanoid form contains the male and female connectors...if you catch the drift. Gender and/or sexual orientation may not mean as much on their side of the screen as it does to ours, and monogamy might not be the default setting.
Linguistically, our curse words and insults center around parentage, sexual practices, bodily waste, or appearance. With the Programs, some of those have already been ruled out. Their insults would likely center on being glitched, disobeying commands, viruses, and disrespect to their Users (like breaking something said in the confidence of an I/O chamber). Boxleitner might not have intended it, but when Flynn addressed him as "Alan," the snarled "[that's] the name of my User" carried a connotation of "blaspheme one more time, and this lightcycle rod is going up your output port."
It's an entire universe in there, one we created, but it's beyond us now. Really. It's outgrown us. You know, every time you shut off your computer...do you know what you're doing? Have you ever reformatted a hard drive? Deleted old software? Destroyed an entire universe?"
-- Jet Bradley, Tron: Ghost in the Machine on why being a User isn't necessarily a good thing.
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Kat
User
Posts: 2,395 | RE: Parallels between programs/humans
on Thursday, April, 05, 2012 9:57 PM
In detail, you're absolutely correct. Deep down, at the core... there are many similarities.
I could also come up with a billion ways our culture is different from that of [insert other country here]: differences in faith, cursing, sex, treatment of different segments of society, attitude toward family and friends, and other various traditions and mores that would seem utterly foreign-- or even at times repugnant-- to us. In the end, though, something is still essentially the same.
Whether they've done this on purpose in the films, to illustrate that those from different cultures can be more like us than it would seem at first, I don't know; programs are from a completely different place with different rules, different culture, different attitudes. In all the vital things, however, they are maybe not so different. They do form friendships and attachments, they do need to know they have a purpose, they do have a desire to know their creators. They're not "less than," just different-- an attitude I'm afraid most visitors to the Grid may not hold, if the way we treat even our fellow human beings is any indication...
(I always thought the Flynn/Tron exchange re: Alan was suspicious, not angry-- Tron's been taken captive by this dictator and it's probably no secret he wants to get away; this new guy shows up. Tron's clearly wary from the start-- Ram chats to Flynn when he arrives but Tron turns away and won't even talk to him [why bother? He'll probably be dead soon]. New guy doesn't get killed, though [and perhaps it's known in the cells that he refused to derez his opponent and that he himself wasn't killed for this], "there's something different about him," and then the new guy not only starts talking sedition but knows something about Tron's user and speaks about him in a familiar way. Who is this guy? Is it a setup? What is he up to? )
What do you want? I'm busy.
Program, please!
Chaos.... good news.
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