Good point, I dont really know. But it wasn't Castor's doing, he is too smart for that.

Clu probably figured he'd waltz in after his troops had done the dirty work.

Once again please notice that Clu never actually does anything bad HIMSELF. He always lets someone else do it. I don't know how they intend that to be received-- is it that he hasn't the stomach to actually hurt anyone himself (that is, he's not that bad), or is it just that he's the big cheese and so of course he wouldn't stoop low enough to do his own dirty work (and/or is too squeamish to get his own hands dirty)? Or it's just possible that he's hypocritical enough to like it that way-- "what? I didn't do anything! It was those guys over there."

Firstly, I didn't really notice the club's lights coming on has a sign to him about the Flynn's being there, I thought it was just because the party was now in full swing and everyone was 'electrofied' (how did Castor know he would be looking in that general direction anyone?).
And secondly, with regards to Clu's attitude towards personnal violence, lets not forget he derezzed poor Jarvis with out even a chance for him to defend himself.
And what about Rinzler, falling to his fate in the Sea of Simulaion?

IluthraDanar Wrote:Did Flynn create the Black Guard or did Clu repurpose them? Maybe its the Godfather thing where he sends others to take care of his business. He did try to kill Sam on the cycle grid, didn't he? Would he have? That laugh when he de-rezzed that one poor program was as cruel as he got, and that was bad enough.

Well, in Betrayal, the Black Guard already exist. Now, it may be they were created by Clu and not Flynn, but neither Flynn nor Tron seem to complain about their actual existence, just their actions. It makes sense to me that Flynn created them, as a security force-- notice how their circuitry markings are very similar to Tron's (minimal lighting, the creepy hand pattern), which makes sense if it's like a "uniform" for programs dedicated to security (so Tron may well have been their commander at one point, or highest-ranked among them, for all we know, and then Clu took over).

As for Sam... not sure if he meant to kill him, or not. Might be he just expected to pwn him and that was it, to make a point. Speaking of permissions/software limitations, perhaps it's not possible for programs to kill users, in which case he probably just meant to beat Sam down and then take him captive again. Or perhaps he did mean to kill him outright, though that would eliminate his bargaining chip with Flynn-- it would piss Flynn off and draw him out, but Clu would have nothing to negotiate with to keep Flynn from doing nothing more than wanting to kill Clu.

(Or, for all we know, users can't die in the Grid. And I know, I'm opening up a whole new debate and maybe we should make a new thread just for this. After all, in OT, Flynn jumps into the MCP but he doesn't die, he just gets kicked back to the real world. Maybe that's what happens when a user "dies" in the Grid.

Or we could debate whether jumping into the MCP kills a user, so maybe he didn't "die" when he did it after all [Yori says he will, but she's speaking from a program's POV]. He could've just got kicked back because he combined with a program that then ceased to exist-- if Tron hadn't de-rezzed the MCP, maybe Flynn would've just... stayed in there.

[Flynn sure spends a lot of time combining with folks at the end of these movies...])

EXODUS Wrote:Firstly, I didn't really notice the club's lights coming on has a sign to him about the Flynn's being there, I thought it was just because the party was now in full swing and everyone was 'electrofied' (how did Castor know he would be looking in that general direction anyone?). And secondly, with regards to Clu's attitude towards personnal violence, lets not forget he derezzed poor Jarvis with out even a chance for him to defend himself. And what about Rinzler, falling to his fate in the Sea of Simulaion?

I don't know if it was a signal or not, but common consensus here seems to be that it might've been. Anyway, if Clu knows he has an agreement with Castor, he might be watching for it. Especially if Castor is known to be a liaison point for the Resistance-- and he well may be, from the way he's portrayed. He probably brings everything he learns back to Clu. Clu may have expected Sam or somebody might get to Castor, so he may have been watching for a signal of some sort. Perhaps not necessarily Sam actually going himself, but probably Castor getting some kind of info. He might've sent the Black Guard in to find out what it was all about, and they sent a message back that Sam was actually there. After all, it looks like only four of them crash the party to begin with:


http://www.homeofthenutty.com/movies/screencaps/displayimage.php?album=140&pid=152663#top_display_media

(And Jarvis? He's an annoying twit, so... That aside, there are a couple things at play here. 1. Remember Jarvis is a opportunistic turncoat. He sees Sam, he says "long live the users." Sounds like a treasonous statement to me. If Clu had any idea about that, no wonder he killed a traitor. 2. It may be because of Rinzler. Remember that at this part, Clu walks in. Rinzler has just failed to capture Sam and Quorra and has let them get away. Clu looks at Rinzler and is clearly unhappy that he didn't do what he was supposed to do. Turns around, de-rezzes Jarvis. Now, why he doesn't de-rez Rinzler, we don't know. It could, once again, go back to a matter of permissions, and we'd speculated before that it could be why Tron gets repurposed rather than de-rezzed to begin with-- because Clu CAN'T kill him. Or he may realize Rinzler's still too valuable of a fighter to get rid of him. So either he de-rezzes Jarvis to make a point to Rinz-- "should be killing YOU, dude"-- or he's just frustrated that he can't kill Rinz/is just in a temper and poor Jarvis happens to get the brunt of it.

IluthraDanar Wrote:Sure, there are times when is downright mean, kicking poor Rinz in the face. .

That's just a matter of survival, after all. Somebody was going into the Sea, and somebody was going to take that baton and rez up a new jet and go on to see another day.... and folks can get pretty brutal and nasty when they're looking their own death in the face and it's going to either be them or someone else. (See: the Games) Especially since Clu was still trying to accomplish something, and was probably thinking "hell if I'm gonna die NOW!" Just about anybody would've done whatever they had to, to get ahold of that baton right then, I think. (Poor Tronzler. Being prepared backfired right there. If he hadn't had a spare baton, sure, he'd've ended up in the water, but so would've Clu and that would've been the end of it.)

Kat Wrote:Once again please notice that Clu never actually does anything bad HIMSELF.

You mean with the exception of attacking Flynn during the coup, right?

Plus, I always assumed that CLU sent the Black Guards into the EOLC first because he was worried about getting close to Flynn, where Flynn could have initiated reintegration and destroy both of them. There's no evidence that suggests that Flynn can do the reintegration and be able to attract CLU from a long distance, as we only saw him doing it, there was only a few yards in between him and where CLU was. So, if CLU knows the distance he can keep away if Flynn initiated reintegration and not get caught in the way, then it's more than likely he'd send his Black Guard as a means of self-preservation.

Kat Wrote:As for Clu + Flynn at EOL Club-- don't forget that Flynn arrived AFTER the BG crashed the party. They started fighting everyone and were winning, THEN Flynn showed up and the BG started to get beat down. So I doubt Clu sent the BG first because he expected to find Flynn there.

CLU couldn't be sure if Flynn was there or not. All he knew was that Flynn wasn't at the hidden room and Castor was signaling to him using the EOLC. For all CLU knew, Flynn could have been there as well. He could have just been cautious in the case that Flynn MIGHT have been there.where to buy abortion pill abortion types buy abortion pill onlineabortion pills online abortion questions cytotec abortion