Pretty awesome. I think it's very very cool that Joe was using the actual controller to to move the gun platform that Garret Hudlund as Sam Flynn was in.

It seems like Garret's reaction was pretty damn genuine as the platfom sweveled side to side.

Ummm... it's not like the original film didn't also have inconsistencies.

For instance, if Flynn knows how to instinctively re-rez Yori, why did he let Ram die?

Also, why would the MCP allow a user-sympathizer like Dumont guard the I/O tower when Sark and the red programs are dedicated to eradicating "user belief" on the original grid?

There are more, but I think the point is made: neither the new film nor the old are without plot holes. And if you're the kind of fan who gets fixated on these kinds of plot holes, well.... bummer.order abortion pill http://unclejohnsprojects.com/template/default.aspx?morning-after-pill-price where to buy abortion pillabortion pills online http://www.kvicksundscupen.se/template/default.aspx?abortion-questions cytotec abortion

troff01 Wrote:Plot holes? Let's talk blatant inconsistencies. Dillinger wrote the MCP. The Disney website says it was Gibbs. The prologue to Betrayal says it was Flynn. Or for that matter, the ending/epilogue to Betrayal doesn't even match up with the key plot point of Legacy.

Why did the MCP have Gibbs face?

Betrayal had some mess ups but I think that there was more thought put into it than most other movie tie ins.

Every movie has plot holes, but that doesn't mean that they can't still be enjoyable. See any How it should have ended video on youtube

http://blog.moviefone.com/2010/07/19/dissecting-inception-six-interpretations-and-five-plot-holes/ Inception plot holes at the bottom.

http://www.wired.com/geekdad/2010/11/top-10-movie-plot-holes-you-probably-never-noticed-before/ Other good examples.order abortion pill morning after pill price where to buy abortion pill

Fygee Wrote:Dillinger did actually say that he wrote the MCP in the first movie, but I wonder if he didn't originally write it and just appended or updated it (hence why the MCP's super old dude's face didn't match Dillingers). At any rate, its par for the course for movies to have plot holes. As much as we dislike them, sometimes things get missed because of time, or because something more entertaining needs to happen.

Other than that, there is a huge discrepancy from the movie to the Comic.

The comic states that Flynn wrote the MCP. Then you could always argue that the MCP meant it when he said "No One User wrote me"

Disc Warrior Wrote:Why did the MCP have Gibbs face?

It didn't.

(And because I don't have 20 posts here yet, I can't post the inline images. Check TRON.wikia for images of Gibbs and the MCP's old chess face.)

It may be harder to tell under the makeup, but the eyesockets and tip of the nose are the wrong shape. Besides that, IMDB's record doesn't say Barnard Hughes played the MCP either.

Disc Warrior Wrote:Betrayal had some mess ups but I think that there was more thought put into it than most other movie tie ins.

Although this might be true, this is basically saying "other stuff was more shbit, so that makes this gold". I did not wait 28 years and watch the plot-destruction of 2.0 to watch a company worth US$82billion who made the billion-dollar-market crackers "Toy Story 3", "Alice In Wonderland" and "Pirates Of The Caribbean 2", then go on to make a disappointer.



(And don't get me started on the pathetic handling and marketing countries south of the equator got.)

And the other problem is that Legacy alone, just within itself had mess-ups, even before we compare it to Betrayal and Evolution.

If the Isos are so special because Flynn didn't write them, why did Sam ask Flynn "didn't you write Quorra?" and Flynn's response was "only partly"?

By the way... that would've made more sense if Anon had sacrificed itself or been cannibalised to keep Quorra going at the end of Evolution. Instead, all we get is another unexplained contradiction.

... and don't get me started on the "dripping blood" thing.

That's why I wish so dearly that Kitsis and Horowitz would be replaced for any future TRON work. Legacy was praised for its visuals and music. Even Roger Ebert who gave the Original TRON 4-out-of-4 stars http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19820101/REVIEWS/201010350/1023 when other reviewers were bagging it, didn't say anything nice about Legacy's writing. If Kitsis and Horowitz were replaced, we'd stand a far better chance of getting future episodes of TRON.

C'mon... doesn't it just kill you guys that maybe anyone here could've put together a better story with all of Disney's resources behind you?

Fygee Wrote:At any rate, its par for the course for movies to have plot holes. As much as we dislike them, sometimes things get missed because of time, or because something more entertaining needs to happen.

... so what, Disney gets a free pass? How come a kid in school or college can't use that excuse, but an $82billion company that depends on those kids can?

typicaltronname Wrote:The comic states that Flynn wrote the MCP. Then you could always argue that the MCP meant it when he said "No One User wrote me"

True, but:

• you could also argue that Dillinger wrote its basis and then machine-learned (which would make more sense, given the "2415 times smarter" point)
• Why wouldn't Gibbs mention he had a hand in the MCP when he said that the "MCP, that's half the problem right there"?
• The MCP reminisces that it played chess with Flynn. Neither the MCP nor Flynn ever said a thing about him being its co-author. Isn't this something else for which Flynn would take credit along with the games? Isn't this something about which the MCP would've gloated whilst sucking Flynn in?

IsoLine Wrote:The MCP confirms that himself. Dr. Gibbs mentions he rememebered the MCP when he was a chess program, so perhaps he and Dillinger had a hand in creating that together.

• Actually, the MCP doesn't confirm that. The MCP confirms that Dillinger wrote it, got smarter since then and that "no one User wrote" it. The simplest explanation for that is Dillinger wrote its core and the MCP learned from there (1). Anything else is speculation; unfortunately, speculation you can argue against, since nobody else in the movie or Daley novel made any claim to (also) writing the MCP; even when it would've been appropriate to do so.
• It was Dumont (and Flynn) who remembered the MCP as a chess program, not Gibbs.

(1) Where "learning" is either Self-Modifying Code http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-modifying_code or another (speculation!) possibility: neural networking as a form of connectionism computation has been around since 1948 (2). If Encom software includes a set of neural nodes capable of learning and improving its performance around its core functions / methods, then that would make its software more flexible and "teachable" (3) than... say... something like typical Resource Hog Programs.

(2) Seeing as digitised Users compute as very large and effective neural networks...

(3) Which we know they have to be. The command shell both Flynn and Alan used to communicate with TRON, the MCP and CLU was a plain English interface; not like DOS or Bash...



Off-topic: this is a pretty awesome discussion. Thanks, all.

ShadowDragon1 Wrote:Wow... Just...wow.

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Disc Warrior Wrote:And Legacy ruined Christmas! So I'm confused, is Disney worth 28 or 82 billion US dollars? You said both.

... according to the "find text" function in my browser, the only two occurrences of "28" before this post of mine were:

• my post of the 18th, 11:46PM, where I said I didn't wait 28 years for a disappointer
• and your last post, you asking if Disney is worth 28 billion, to which I'm replying.

My post said 82. And my figure came from checking the market cap of Disney; the friendly Google Programs can help with that, or try http://www.dailyfinance.com/quotes/the-walt-disney-company/dis/nys.

... where on Earth did you get the idea I said Disney was worth 28 billion?

And as a matter of fact, Legacy and Disney did ruin my Christmas:

• I was expecting the merchandise for both a cosplay for the preview and for Christmas itself; this was after being handed promotional material by the Disney rep at the Sneak Preview. All we got here in Brisbane, Australia were the Deluxe figures and discs (oh, and the LightRunner and Sam's Cycle. The discs didn't appear in the stores until the day of the preview). I saved my money and friends' gift requests to directed specifically at TRON merchandise.
• Didn't get the basic discs I was going to buy for the nieces whom I'd taken to the preview, didn't get the launcher baton, didn't get the keyboard or the Wiimote.
• The major gamestore chain here said that they wouldn't be ordering Evolution in because there was no demand; there were only three billboards in my city. Disney's home country and Europe got cosplays, events and ARGs.
• Amazon refused to sell the "Sea Of Simulation" track outside the U.S.; the double-CD soundtrack cost over $100
• This was, by the way, after I rang the Australian Disney offices every day for a week straight trying to get in touch with them to find out who their distributors in Brisbane were going to be; and all I got was redirected to another office, or an answering machine saying the office was unattended.
  
• And ultimately, as I believe I mentioned in the second post in this thread, the writers of Legacy were amateurish hacks who should never have been given the job and instead ended up ruining 28 years of expectation and the TRON franchise after urinating all over 2.0 and furthermore, getting bad reviews and hence hurting our chances of getting better any sequels in future.
  
• And the books were equally amateurish hacks. The DisneyPress "novel" deliberately ended just as Sam saved Quorra from the Carrier and grabbed the unidentified-something off the racks. Didn't even get to see anything including or after Flynn's commandeering of the jet.
  

... so having said all that, Disc Warrior:

• Where did you get the idea I contradicted myself in posts, and
• Before having a humorous go, might you first consider that I might have legitimate grievances?

... I'm going to apologise now for my harshness. In case it's not evident, I'm really pi**ed and super-bitter at Disney because they screwed the whole thing up. TRON was one of the major factors that drew me into computing; hence my degree, my job, my postgraduate study and my current project. My undergrad 3D graphics lecturer showed TRON to the class in the first week's tutorial because of its importance to the industry.

Disney may have money and may have bought the IP for TRON from Lisberger and MacBird, but they didn't have the right to cock it up.

There's a reason Disney have inspired me to start planning CC- or GPL-licenced TRON fan-fiction which doesn't ever use the terms "TRON", "Encom", "Flynn" or "MCP"... so I can create something that Disney can't buy and f*** screw up.

Said it before, I'll say it again: Disney - biggest Mickey Mouse organisation in the world.

Thanks, but this is my Zen. I optimise. I find errors and I try to do something about them.

For example, I do have a list of features for a fan-fic. And it was damn hurtful to see what Disney did. Are you going to say they did a perfect job?

I'm fortunately old enough to not give a damn about the term "waaambulance". And the fact that I can provide references that correct peoples' misapprehensions and errors about the movie(s) that we're supposedly here to love mean that... well, that my posts aren't just "overblown complaints". Your artwork seems decent but I'm now under-impressed with your critical analysis skills.

Is that the way it is here? Did I join just to discover that if I don't sing Disney's praises and get in the way with inconvenient facts, I'm going to be labelled a complainer?

Note the previous comment I made about previously enjoying the discussion. Pardon me for finding a bit of pride in my work and my interests, rather than just getting facts wrong or bitching with pop-culture terms like "waaambulance" and "Zen thing". Pretty rich of you there, Alan.where to buy abortion pill abortion types buy abortion pill online

ShadowDragon1 Wrote: Your vaguely condesending remark was uncalled for. Your comment about my artwork was uneccessary as well.

Your comment was condescending. Don't complain when you get what you give.

Your artwork is decent. What, you don't even want compliments?

This thread's topic isn't about Disney's business practices,

[sarcasm]Because thread topics never change and discussion is static, isn't it? I didn't realise I was on the new Reddit.

It's only about a small video clip from the making of the movie's VFX. I'm pretty sure this thread is to give thoughts on the content of that video clip.

Well, you might want to re-read how this started. My original comment was on Horowitz and Kitsis, in this clip, betraying the fact that they really didn't think about and hence, didn't do a very good job of it.

I really shouldn't even of bothered replying to you because it seems like you just want to stir up things and argue.

Then don't reply. Feel free to wander away. I posted points here discussing my hopes that we could get some really quality content and I pointed out what could be improved. And all you do is either wave the "I'm an unthinking fan drone" flag or complain that I'm harshing your buzz.

I want to stir things up and discuss. If you can't join in constructively, then what claim do you have to maturity?where to buy abortion pill ordering abortion pills to be shipped to house buy abortion pill online

ShadowDragon1 Wrote:Just amazing. I never asked you to comment on my artwork.

You put a link to your artwork site on every single post you make and you don't expect someone to go look at it? Additionally, I said it was good. What's wrong with you?

Rather than drop things

Why should I "drop things"? What, in any of my posts, has actually been incorrect or invalid?

you have to pick apart my post and continue to stir up things and incite conflict.

Your post is having a go at me, rather than addressing the content and points I made. Who's inciting conflict? And given that you're just having a go at me, what did you expect me to do?

Sensible discussion is fine, but it seems like you just to push your very subjective points on others.

• Sensible discussion? You haven't addressed the points, you've just been having a go at me.
• Subjective points? When I back everything up with examples and evidence? What's wrong with you?

Also, picking apart my post was uneccessary.

• You already said that.
• You were wrong then, too. I had to point out you weren't addressing any of the actual topics and just indulging in "shut up, you, quit harshing my buzz" commentary. Picking apart your post was mandatory

I predict your just going to "analyze" this post and retort with more uneccessary, vague derision laced comments.

Given that "analysis" is really a part of the discussion-and-debate mechanism, it'd be idiotic for me to not do so. Worse, your every criticism has been off-topic and hypocritical!

Why not address the points I made originally?

• there were a lot of flaws in Legacy.
• Almost all of them stemmed from the egregious writing
• The video that started this thread was a prime example where they showed off how bad their writing was.
• Meekly accepting the bad writing and saying "it's par for the course" will just encourage further bad writing.
  
• Given that the bad writing directly caused bad reviews and a poor reception in the general target demographic, that translates to lost ticket sales and a harming of the franchise...
• ... which means that every TRON fan in the future risks losing out if Disney executives decide to cut their losses

Oh. Whoops. It looks like your prediction was wrong; I didn't "just analyze". I also restated the problem originally being commented on.

Go ahead. Ignore again the actual points I'm making. You tell me again I should "drop things".