Just read through some of the fic here; some of it deals with the stuff you're talking about. (we do have a thread somewhere around here about the discrepancies between Legacy and Betrayal as well. Most of us consider it "semi-canon," I believe. I'm currently working on a "fill-in" of it-- added scenes, more insight into the characters' points of view in the scenes in the graphic novel, etc. i'm only about halfway through though, and it's already about 30 pages without me even going back and filling in even more, so it may be a while.)


A few recs (some shameless self-promotion here, as well as shameless promotion of others):
Blindside (where Sam comes from, since you asked): http://tron-sector.com/forums/default.aspx?a=top&id=443388

Through a Diamond Sky (Flynn & Jordan)-- this is part one; the rest of the parts are a couple pages back in this forum: http://tron-sector.com/forums/default.aspx?a=top&id=440534

What They Needed (Tron & Yori and if you 'ship them at all, you should read this)-- again, this is part one and you can scroll back and find the rest: http://tron-sector.com/forums/default.aspx?a=top&id=438896

Nox Aurumque (a different version of Tron and Yori; somewhat reminiscent of the former but actually inspired by Mr. C.A. Sylvestri, whose text written for Eric Whitacre's music finally gave me the catalyst to write on a subject I'd wanted to address for a long time): http://tron-sector.com/forums/default.aspx?a=top&id=441756

Beat of Your Heart (not Alan & Sam, but still, Flynn & Sam): http://tron-sector.com/forums/default.aspx?a=top&id=439658

Afterward (Uh... yeah; what it says): http://tron-sector.com/forums/default.aspx?a=top&id=437744


1010 (Not really what you were asking for, but a great series of shorts and you need to read it): http://tron-sector.com/forums/default.aspx?a=top&id=436584

Fallen Away (not necessarily Legacy-compliant as it was started before that film; read it anyway): http://tron-sector.com/forums/default.aspx?a=top&id=309882

Tron: Redemption (not finished but can't wait to see the rest!): http://tron-sector.com/forums/default.aspx?a=top&id=396884

Fanfiction.net "homes" of some of our other members:
http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1590200/IluthraDanar (Especially make sure to read Ultimate Ally and Shadow Life)

http://www.fanfiction.net/u/646889/Silver-ShadowSpark (no Tron fic up yet that I see. Oh yes, Spark, this is a callout! Add some!!)

http://www.fanfiction.net/u/4302/Allronix (J writes a lot around Tron 2.0. Read the stuff anyway, trust me. I've not played it either, but you don't really need to to get the idea.)where to buy abortion pill abortion types buy abortion pill online

Unfortunately, yeah, it can. Usually I take bits and pieces-- like the whole Jordan storyline, and the stuff about what was happening with Clu et al behind the scenes-- and defer to the films where there are discrepancies. (I'm having a difficult time toeing the hard-and-straight line with my fill-in, since I'm having to now convincingly write stuff I've not accepted before, even stuff I've not accepted because it makes no sense).

Everybody's got a head-canon; some of us are just more stubborn about it than others. I do it with pretty much every fandom I have, to varying degrees, and then new material comes out that contradicts it and I'm just like, "Nope." It's half the reason why I don't watch the animated series. There are some things in which I'm not willing to be open-minded, and apparently my fandoms are one of them...

Unfortunately, I'm no help there. I don't tend to read fic except what's posted here or by people I know from here-- I popped over to FF.net once and there was way too much to sort through so I gave up.

Other folks who read in other places more might have some good recs, though.

I guess it's not something I ever considered doing myself... in part 'cause I'm not sure what Alan would do. It may be implied elsewhere in material I'm not familiar with (like the Next Day short), but I'm not sure how much hope Alan truly had at that point. He gets a page but he waits two days to do anything about it, and then he just makes a vague comment to Sam and hopes Sam does something about it... which as I've said before, isn't the way *I'd* react if I still actually expected anything. If you're waiting for a really important call, you don't hear your phone ring and think "Yeah, I'll check my voicemail tomorrow or something." And when Sam pages him, he comes by (makes you wonder why now all of a sudden it's urgent? Clearly Sam didn't page from his own number, 'cause Alan's surprised it was him-- "Sam, you paged me?") but doesn't really ask what Sam found or anything. So I'm not even sure what I would expect from such a story-- I'm not sure total grief and shock would be what I think we'd get from Alan, because I am not sure such news would surprised him. At this point he may just be at the "I just need definitive news that he's dead" stage even though he may be relatively certain. Perhaps other writers feel similarly-- that it might be anti-climactic when it does happen.order abortion pill http://unclejohnsprojects.com/template/default.aspx?morning-after-pill-price where to buy abortion pill

Tzigone Wrote:I definitely think Alan had some hope after he got that page. His "wouldn't that be something" and even the fact that he still had the pager before that indicate to me that he thought it possible that Flynn was not dead.

That line always bugged me too, because between it and the delivery, it sounds like Alan *knows* *something.* But someone here finally told me that according to Bruce himself, he meant the delivery just to be sad and wistful, and not really supposed to "mean" anything. But frankly, I still don't hear it that way. It sounds like Alan knows precisely what Sam's going to find at the arcade... which has some interesting implications for writing about Alan if you're willing to accept that maybe he's not a good guy.

Tzigone Wrote:Also, I don't think Alan would send Sam to that arcade if he thought it was just a wild goose chase. That would just be cruel, which I don't think Alan is. At the least, I think Alan thought it might lead to something - even if only a clue or hint as to what did happen to Flynn.

I'm not sure. The whole thing was weird, really. But it's possible he may have just wanted to shake Sam up enough to get him out of whatever apathy Alan thought he was in (whether I think he was right to do, and whether I think Sam really was in a negative apathy, is a totally different subject). Again, at the end Alan doesn't ask why Sam had a sudden change of heart, so I don't think it likely he expected much happened at the arcade except Sam getting nostalgic.

Tzigone Wrote:However, I don't think Alan had been told yet in "The Next Day" even thought he shut down "Flynn Lives." He was far too chipper for that, IMO.

I didn't see that clip, but recall that at the end of T:L, even Sam was pretty chipper. He just found out what happened to his dad, discovered a new world, went through a bunch of turmoil, watched his dad die (FOR HIM, no less), has acquired a new roommate/responsibility, and like Lucy he has a lot of 'splainin' to do to a lot of people...... and then he pops out, looks sad for a few seconds, and then he's all smiley at Alan and flirty with Quorra and seeming like he's in a pretty good mood. (I still assume there's a lot they didn't show us between the time they rez out and we see them again, and he probably crashes hard later. I understand they had to end the film on an upbeat note, so I'll give it to them, but... I do think I or you or most people would have a slightly-different reaction.)

Tzigone Wrote:I agree Alan wouldn't be shocked. I think he has been at least considering the idea that Flynn was dead ever since Flynn disappeared. He'd still grieve some, but I'm not sure how distant a grief that would be. That's actually one of the aspects that interests me - how do you react when you've at least half-way suspected he's dead for so many years?

I imagine it's the same reaction in someone who, say, had someone who was MIA in Vietnam, or kidnapped a long time ago, or something. You know there's pretty much no chance they're still alive, so at that point you really just need confirmation for your own sense of closure/peace of mind/whatever. And if they do finally find some sort of remains or proof, it's probably a sense of relief, mixed with some sadness, but not nearly the raw grief as if it were something new or unexpected.

Tzigone Wrote:But I don't think Alan was 100% certain Flynn was dead. If he was, he wouldn't have carried the pager, wouldn't have told Sam about the page, wouldn't have made that comment, and wouldn't have come to the arcade when he got the second page.

I've wondered if he maybe kept the pager more out of nostalgia than because he thinks he'll actually need it. That would explain why he didn't think the page he received was urgent. Like people who don't get rid of stuff that belonged to a loved one after they die, or keep their room the same, or something. They don't expect the person to come back and use it, but it's a gesture. But again, he may have told Sam and sent him over there thinking it would get Sam's blood flowing to see all of it again and such.

Tzigone Wrote:As for the waiting two days - I sort of have a theory, but I'm not that convinced of it, myself. I'm not sure if this times out, but is it possible "last night" refers not to the night *before* the board meeting and prank, but to the same night? That at 7:00 pm (when the Nikkei index opens on the east coast, I think, and they referenced an opening bell) Sam perpetrated his prank and got arrested, after that Alan got the page. He goes to Sam's home and waits until 3 or 4 am when Sam arrives and they chat, Sam goes to the arcade, then when Alan's barely gotten home to sleep, he gets paged again? Or maybe the OS-12 rollout was at midnight (9 on west coast)? Because Alan is discussing the mundane matter of OS-12 and such at the board meeting, and that just doesn't seem likely to me, if he's already gotten the page.

I definitely think it's the same night. And that's the way I've written it. Sam gets home from jail, Alan's at his place, he maybe dilly-dallies a bit but then goes to the arcade, and yeah, poor Alan can't catch a break when it comes to sleep, apparently. There is that part where he's talking to Flynn about base jumping and refers to "two nights ago, on Encom Tower" but I think we agreed here that that's probably just a figure of speech or a mistake on the part of the writers-- I don't think Sam really waited two days either and that's not what they imply (but then, it would seem that many things they imply in the film, they contradict later, so who knows).

I think Alan HAD already gotten the page at that point, but like I said, if he wasn't concerned enough about it to go over there right away, then he probably wasn't concerned enough to act abnormally. I do think they really meant it when *he* referred to "two days ago."

As far as time, we've discussed that here as well. I'm pretty sure that yeah, the meeting was right when the Nikkei opened (so, 7 p.m. PST). They're supposed to go live probably shortly before the opening, and Mackey says something like "we have to ring that bell!" That means we have a lot of time to fill during the film. Especially since, if it's already completely dark at 7 p.m. (actually before, since it's already completely dark when Sam's on the way there, so let's say completely dark at 6:00 or 6:30), then it's probably late fall. So that means the sun isn't rising until probably at least 7 a.m. or so? And we know you can spend hours in the Grid and it'll only take like 10 minutes out here, so Sam's probably not at the arcade more than an hour total. So we need to fill time between him getting arrested (which seems to happen between 7:00 and 7:30 p.m.; if his little board meeting fiasco is going on at the same time he's on the roof) and about 5:30 or 6:00 a.m. So how long does he spend in jail, vs. how long after Alan leaves debating with himself whether to go over to the arcade, etc.?

Tzigone Wrote:On the bad guy thing - I absolutely do not want Alan to be a bad guy (I adore him), but he really does weird me out a little in "The Next Day" - he comes off a bit creepy, even. I don't think he's supposed to, and no one else seems to think that, but it just really feels like something is "off" to me. .

I don't really want him to be bad either, but I've written him that way before, and I think he could have reason to be. He spent a lot of time cleaning up Flynn's messes, living in Flynn's shadow, etc. Flynn even got Alan's girl before Alan did-- something Alan's clearly bitter about in T82. And then he's stuck with Flynn's son, who's growing up immature and irresponsible just like his dad. I think there's a lot that could be grating on poor Alan, if you wanted to put a different spin on things.

Tzigone Wrote:I just can't agree. It's too purposeless. There's no reason nostalgia would shake up Sam, and it's cruel to give him hope if Alan believes there is 0% chance Flynn is alive. I don't think Alan not asking factors in. To me, he still just looks confused and sort "what just happened?" when Sam and Quorra left. I don't think he's even really processed what Sam said yet. .

I guess I find it neither purposeless nor cruel. Sam's obviously got unfinished emotional business going on, which Alan points out a couple times during their conversation (noting that Sam lives somewhere he can have a good view of Encom Tower, his little dig about "you sure have an interesting way of being disinterested"). Alan also pushes him pretty hard to take over the company, and it doesn't sound like this is even remotely the first time. And my guess is that Sam has been very careful about avoiding anything that'll remind him of his dad-- this trip to the arcade was, at least I'm guessing, the first time he's willingly had anything to do with something associated with his dad in a long time (aside from fixing his dad's Duc, and it seems like he's been working on that a damn long time and not apparently making much progress, if the thing's still sitting dusty in a corner of his apartment-- I imagine the thing probably doesn't need much more than tires, a serious oil change, cleaning or replacing carbs, new spark plugs, maybe a dose of Seafoam... and that just can't take YEARS, especially for a guy who hasn't got a job to take up all his time). So Alan may figure if Sam goes over there and looks around, he might think "yeah, you know, I do want to follow in my dad's footsteps."

I don't think Alan means to give him hope IOW. I think he means to spur him into action and get him to use his influence to get Encom back to where Alan wants it. (In a way, Alan's kind of using Sam to get the end situation Alan wants. Actually, that might be a new thread in itself.)

Tzigone Wrote:I didn't find him "flirty" at all - and barely recall him smiling. I thought he was showing her the sunrise because he knew what it would mean to her. She is his friend (and yes, I think romantic feelings are brewing) and he wants her to have this. I think Sam clearly conveyed his intent to accomplish his father's goal - taking back the company, saying they were going to change the world, etc. That's how he was going to honor his father. He's put aside grieving in favor of "doing" if that makes any sense.

Oh, it was SO flirty. He gets right up into her face* (I'm sorry, but if a dude gets that close to me and into my personal space--his face less than a foot from mine-- I'm gonna think he's either setting up to kiss me or fight me, depending on the rest of his demeanor), lowers his voice half an octave, smiiiiles at her in just that way** and says "come on, I want to show you something" in a way that almost makes you wonder exactly what, ahem, he has in mind (the fact that Hedlund's voice is drop-dead sexy to begin with doesn't hurt).... oh yeah, that is TOTALLY the vibe I get from it. Even the look on her face at that point is like "Holy shit, what's going on??"

*http://www.homeofthenutty.com/movies/screencaps/displayimage.php?album=140&pid=153930#top_display_media
**http://www.homeofthenutty.com/movies/screencaps/displayimage.php?album=140&pid=153928#top_display_media

Tzigone Wrote:I actually got a strong "good" vibe from the end of the movie, and I know you didn't (unles I'm thinking of someone else, in which case - sorry). Flynn sacrificed himself - for Sam and for the world. It was a heroic sacrifice to me, because it's not that Flynn wanted to die; he wanted to live more now than he had since Clu took over, I think. But Clu was too great a threat and this is the way Flynn saw to stop him. Sam is stronger, solider, at the end. Not flighty or childish. He's taking the company - at eight o'clock. That's less than a couple hours away. To me, it's like things have been so bad for so long, and now they are going to be better (and Flynn is responsible for that). To me, the end is a very strong beginning. So sequel-set-up. But not to the degree that it feels unfinished or annoying. It works even if there were never to be another movie, IMO. And you know sunrise, as a theme or symbol, works for the "will be better" thing too, end of darkness and all that.

I think you're thinking of J. I totally get a "good" vibe from it, and I like that. TBH with you, I'd be kind of glad if it ended there. You hope things will get better, two of our favorite characters are history but in a heroic way, etc. Frankly, I could easily see Sam going on and making all the same mistakes Flynn did-- I think he's right when he tells Alan he's not ready to run a Fortune-500 company. Flynn wasn't either, if T:B is to be believed; he got in way over his head. The dude was a programmer and gamer, not a businessman. Sam's the same way. It could work if Sam merely takes his majority shareholder status and starts putting people into place on the chess board without taking over himself. Even poor Alan got tossed into the "businessman" role when it wasn't really his thing-- he just seems to have played the game better than Flynn did.

Tzigone Wrote:I get where you are coming from, but still think the other way is at least as likely. Because if he wasn't that concerned, then why was he at Sam's place in the early morning - he could have waited until normal visiting hours and gotten some sleep. The only way I could really be okay with that logic is if he gave himself "okay I have 24 hours to make a decision" deadline when he got the page and then when the time came, went to Sam's and waited.

But if he WAS that concerned, he wouldn't have waited two days. Like I've said before, if he truly thinks the pager is so important that he needs to sleep with it, then if something happens, he's going to be right on it. He probably shows up at Sam's for two reasons: to get on him about the prank (Sam even accuses him of "the surrogate father thing"), and to get on him about taking over the company while Sam's still on a high/on an emotional roll from the prank. In fact he pretty much says so-- something to the effect of implying that if Sam's going to expend energy, he might as well do so actually doing good for the company. I imagine if you're going to open Sam up about Flynn, your best bet is at some point when something has happened to crack the wall he's probably built in his mind around the subject-- so some time like around prank time, on the anniversary of Flynn's disappearance, whatever. Alan may well have waited because he was well aware Sam was going to pull something that night and he figured he might as well ride that wave while Sam's still giddy about the whole thing and before he's had a chance to wind down and to shut down again.

Tzigone Wrote:Well, we've already established that I don't think he did wait two days. At most, he waited one, but I think that might not even be the case. I think it quite probably he got the page after the meeting, then went directly to Sam's and waited for him. It does technically qualify as "last night." If not that, then he got it one night before the meeting. And it makes more sense that he's at Sam's place in the early AM that way.

I thought he said he got the page two days ago, though? I'm going to have to go back and find the dialogue again, I guess.

Tzigone Wrote:I guess Alan's actions, motivations, etc. just make so much more sense to me if he thought it possible Flynn was still around. I really don't think sending Sam on a wild goose chase to his father's old arcade in the hope that it'll somehow make him want to do what Alan wants to do or address his emotional issues makes any sense. There's no reason at all it would work. He'd show up, say "everything is as it always has been - I'll just be as I always have been." .

I think that's just the different interpretation, then (and one of the ways it's easy to disagree on X Y and Z in the films, IMO). Like I said, I see Sam as avoiding everything to do with his dad, probably because he knows it will trigger emotions he doesn't want to deal with (after all, he doesn't even have keys to the arcade). Alan has to know that too, so he would think it's a good way to lean on Sam. I mean, if he thinks Sam is going to find something specific (something neither the police nor he himself ever found, in 20 whole years), why wouldn't he say so? Or go with? If you think this thing holds water, you've been waiting 20 years for news of your friend, wouldn't you want to be there to find whatever you think is waiting? Or at the very least, wouldn't you *insist* Sam go instead of planting some seeds and then walking away and hoping they sprout?

(I have yet to figure out where the page even CAME from. If the number has been disconnected for 20 years, then it's probably been reassigned at least once and possibly multiple times. So how could a page come from it?)

For fic? Basically archiveofourown, fanfiction.net, the ones listed here, and what I'd already found at the Tron Legacy livejournal. I don't think I turned up anything new from this post.