very nice. Xeons kick arse. I'd have one to host Tron if I could get ahold of one. Not a cheap server..

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This message is brought to you by my kindest intentions regarding the two pre-built computers you're trying to decide between.

I do not know what you're planning on using either of these computers for, so this message may seem rude or something like that. But due to this economy, I'm looking to see if I can help you save money. At the very least, I know you can end up with a much, much better system for $600. Granted, you'll only have 1 dual or quad core processor, but it'll still be better.

You see, I learned this past summer from my own experience that you save money if you build your own system, or at least get much, much more value. I actually saved a few hundred (almost $500, if I remember correctly) by building my own. If I went and bought a comparable pre-built system to the one I built myself this summer, then I'd be stuck with lower-quality hardware (including the motherboard, memory, graphics, sound, hard drives, etc., etc.,) and no ability to overclock. But I got the very best bang for my buck possible by building it myself and I can freely overclock it which drastically raises the value (my E8400 is at 4.0GHz). It is impossible to get a computer at Best Buy that will out-perform my system for the same amount of money I put into mine. Well, wait. I don't know for sure anymore because I built this back in April. hahaha But I can guarantee you that there's no pre-built that has this much value with such high-quality brand-name parts.

So, the best part about building your own is, not only can you overclock it to increase the value, but you get to pick the hardware instead of being forced to take what a manufacturer chooses to use. Granted, you can just swap out the crap for good stuff, but then you're decreasing the value by replacing parts you paid for by purchasing the pre-built system. Furthermore, it is usually impossible to overclock a pre-built because it's not really something they make it capable of doing (unless things have changed over the past few months). I do not know this from experience, but I know it based on what everyone at www.overclock.net has said. In fact, go there if you want to get started. It's quite possibly the best DIY forum on the internet. And use Newegg to do some of your shopping (I found like half of my parts cheaper than Newegg by using Google Shopping.

To my surprise, building a computer is really easy. It involves a little bit of physical labor, but it was really, really worth it.

Another great benefit of building your own is that if something goes wrong, then the chances of figuring out what is wrong and actually fixing it are greater than with a pre-built. This isn't to say that a pre-built is super-difficult in this respect, but a DIY system is just easier. After all, you built it. You know the computer on an intimate level. I'm serious. It's like your own child vs. somebody else's.

After building my own, I will never own another pre-built. Ever! I mean, if I ever want a laptop, then I'm going to build as much of it as I possibly can. It just makes no financial sense to me to buy a pre-built.

And now a few thoughts about the computers your looking at (not that this means anything coming from me):

Judging from the specs, I don't see how these are good at being heavy duty graphics workstations. Perhaps that's why they're selling them!

16x PCI-Express is so much better and newer than AGP. AGP was still cool when Pentium III 500MHz was the fastest. Also, 128MB is rather puny these days, but not bad for AGP!!

Also, based on everything I've heard, the Xeon is good, but the Core2 Duo E8400, and E8600 (there's a less-popular E8500 too) out-perform the Xeon for gamers and graphics people. I've also heard much about how, in general, the E8400 outperforms and overclocks better than the Xeon E3110 (both are 45nm dual core 3.0GHz processors). Of course, it's likely that either of these HP machines cannot be overclocked.


Please forgive me if I'm a little crazy for posting this, but I wish somebody had told me about building my own like 8 years ago. I was stuck with a Gateway with a PIII 500 MHz, 384MB of RAM (I think it came with either 128, or 256), a Voodoo3 3000AGP, and Windows 98 (later replaced with a fresh install of XP Pro).

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Qix77 Wrote:I can't get the links to work.. You got me thinking yet again, Karl.... Looks like I'm going to do some web surfing today..

The error message seems to mean that the page doesn't exist. The main page (http://www.megapc.com) works just fine. Perhaps this is just a simple error and may be fixed soon.

Just go into their liquidation section the two HP workstations are there. It could be because part of the link is a sql statement and is not longer accesable. You'll see it and can't miss. it.

Tim.H Wrote: Qix77 Wrote:I can't get the links to work.. You got me thinking yet again, Karl.... Looks like I'm going to do some web surfing today.. The error message seems to mean that the page doesn't exist. The main page (http://www.megapc.com) works just fine. Perhaps this is just a simple error and may be fixed soon.

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Xeon and Itiniu,s are the great processors from Intel since they are server CPU's. AMd are great as well for workstations and all that too. For me when I get a chance to is to get a xeon or a itinium machine over here to persoanlly use one over here.

My recent upgrade for one of my older Dell GX150 that I have over here. I have to return the memory that I had bought for it. and just realized that the 2 256 megs sticks that I have are double sided instead of single sided sticks like the other gx150 that I have here. And the drive that I plunked in a Mator 250 for $45 bucks is not tat bad either. So I replaced back the older 256 for the time being and installing Uuntu 8.04 on it witht he hard drive that I have in there.

When I go back tomorrow for the memory I'll check to see if they have the proper size for it. And I might pick up 4 256 ECC for my HP netserver to bring that one up to 1 gig of ram. Running 384 megs of ram is tightly squeaking on that one with windows 2003 enterprise edition on it.

Jademz Wrote: Tim.H Wrote: Also, based on everything I've heard, the Xeon is good, but the Core2 Duo E8400, and E8600 (there's a less-popular E8500 too) out-perform the Xeon for gamers and graphics people. I've also heard much about how, in general, the E8400 outperforms and overclocks better than the Xeon E3110 (both are 45nm dual core 3.0GHz processors). Of course, it's likely that either of these HP machines cannot be overclocked. From what I've heard, Xeons are more stable. But what do I know.. I just fixed the mobo(60 bucks) to host Tron, and some voip servers. It's not upgraded atm, but it's a micro Foxconn am2+, atm I'm using an old AMD athalon 64x2 +4200, I'll upgtrade that to a Phenom x3, and add another WD raptor for a raid 0(I have 3 in it now). also, I'll add 4GB of the best ram for the task.. Sometime soon. This will work for Tron 2.0 just fine. Hehehe I agree I didn't take it the wrong way, I've tinkered with pc's since 87, helped build them since around 97ish, and made my own from spare parts in 2003 to play Tron 2.0. I think I've made 12 since then.. lol

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That is okay Qixx I know the feeling it costs a lot to make long distance calls as well for me too. Believe it or not even when I speak with a dear friend of mine in California I could spend at least 3090 minutes on the phone and I sound like one of those doctors for the physco ward knodding my head. I'll try and call you once to chat with you I have to go get some extra load on my cell over here. since it is a pay as you go type instead of those 2-3 year contracts ones.

Qix77 Wrote:Hey, Comp... Thanks for the text message.. I'm not able to send any out on my phone cause I didn't get that service, and I would love to call ya but it's really expensive for me to call out of the states. However, I think I can receive calls without extra charge. My friend Beth is stationed in Japan and she calls me once in a while and I don't notice any extra charges on my bill so I guess it all good... I'm hooked up with Nextel (from Sprint) and they are some weird SOBs.....

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No problem Qixx Should I also use those flags or flashlights like what they use for airplanes to let you know as well via the internet?? Or good old Morse code with the dots and dashes.

Qix77 Wrote: Compucore Wrote:That is okay Qixx I know the feeling it costs a lot to make long distance calls as well for me too. Believe it or not even when I speak with a dear friend of mine in California I could spend at least 3090 minutes on the phone and I sound like one of those doctors for the physco ward knodding my head. I'll try and call you once to chat with you I have to go get some extra load on my cell over here. since it is a pay as you go type instead of those 2-3 year contracts ones. Qix77 Wrote:Hey, Comp... Thanks for the text message.. I'm not able to send any out on my phone cause I didn't get that service, and I would love to call ya but it's really expensive for me to call out of the states. However, I think I can receive calls without extra charge. My friend Beth is stationed in Japan and she calls me once in a while and I don't notice any extra charges on my bill so I guess it all good... I'm hooked up with Nextel (from Sprint) and they are some weird SOBs..... Hey.. If you do, let me know ahead of time so that I know I'll be able to answer. I'd hate to miss your call (usually can't answer when I'm with a client). Plus, email me your number so I'll recognize the call (and add it to my phone).