tron_fanfare
User
Posts: 49 | AMD or INTEL debacle
on Thursday, January, 15, 2004 4:29 PM
Hi guys...getting ready to build 2 new systems...1 for me and 1 for my finacee. Im trying to make the decision weather to go AMD or Intel for the CPU...just wanted a few opinions from the good folks here. I've been on AMD for 4 years now but I've built probably 60 or so systems with the p4 but that was a while ago. I will be using my system for 3d graphics creation (3ds MAX, MAYA, and Lightwave) and hers for mainly games and music creation. Flames welcome too hehe just looking for opinions  order abortion pill morning after pill price where to buy abortion pill
"How are ya gonna run the universe if you can't even answer a few unsolvable problems?" - Flynn in the real world
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TronFAQ
Sector Admin
Posts: 4,467 | Re: AMD or INTEL debacle
on Thursday, January, 15, 2004 4:50 PM
 
Well, if there's one thing I can tell you . . . it's stay away from the Athlon 64. For now, anyway.
As much as I like and support AMD, the Athlon 64 is not a good choice right now. Too expensive, and Athlon 64 motherboards need time to mature. (On the other hand, in a year's time the Athlon 64 will probably become the best choice.)
So that leaves the Athlon XP and Penitum 4.
Well . . . I have nothing against Intel or the P4. The P4 is a good chip, and is best for multimedia and 3-D rendering. But for every day use and gaming, the Athlon XP is a much better performer and is a better value.
So, just to show I'm not biased, make one of them Intel and one AMD.
Or . . . just make them both AMD, and save some money. 
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MutoidMan
User
Posts: 2,232 | Re: AMD or INTEL debacle
on Friday, January, 16, 2004 12:13 AM
I'm building a new PC in the next month or so. I've decided to purchase one of the new 90nm 'Prescott' P4's that are supposed to be introduced in February.
Intel is rumored to be lowering the traditional price for its flagship desktop processor from about $650 to about $420, and all of the existing P4's will be lowered in price accordingly, so you can see that the P4's might be a very good buy.
The Prescott P4's are supposed to have 16KB of L1 cache & 1MB of L2 cache (both double the amount in current P4's), SSE3 and improved Hyper-Threading.
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tron_fanfare
User
Posts: 49 | Re: AMD or INTEL debacle
on Friday, January, 16, 2004 4:37 PM
Well ive decided to go amd but this leaves a different question:
Single amd XP's or build a tandem athlon MP system? I havent found too many dual mp boards out there and the ones i have found have been like $250. Theoretically 2 athlon mp processors could beat 1 single p4 3ghz with Hyperthreading if I can get a sequential set of processors...what y'all think?
"How are ya gonna run the universe if you can't even answer a few unsolvable problems?" - Flynn in the real world
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Compucore
User
Posts: 4,450 | Re: AMD or INTEL debacle
on Friday, January, 16, 2004 7:04 PM
For me as far as it goes with using either Intel or AMD. I'm used to using both of them. Even though Intel tends to be a little bit higher in price. I try to keep thing on the cheaper side like the AMD cpu. Depending on who I am building the system for myself. Personall I wouold probably keep a AMD CPU if I was to go for a new system.
And as far as for using a single or dual processor machines. I would probably stick with a dual CPU and Mobo. The initial price might be higher in the beginning. But worth it in the long run. And maybe with about 2 gigs of ram. So that each CPU had about a gig each. Who said that they wanted to build a dual CPU machine. where? What kind of applications are you going to be running that is going to require 2 cpu's? I know and heard some people using it as a gaming machine. Others that have a machine like that is usually using it for something like animationand the what ever else comes up.
You know what would be really nice to have. and I know that Intel or AMD doesn't have it yet. But I know of one Manufacture that does have it and using it in their systems.. But its mainly in the field of Supercomputers The CPU's in cray supercomputers that they have developed. Where you have on one large die or large chip. 4 cpu's and for caches of 8 megs each. But they are RISC based CPU and not SISC base cpu's. ANd these puppies are water cooled and not coole like the convention cpu's like what you and I used on a daily bases.Would be interesting to see something like that come out for the regular PC computers.
Here is the link to the videos that you can download from their site and view. In case some one would be interested in looking at what I had mentioned above.
http://www.cray.com/company/video/
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Compucore 
VROOOOOOOOOMMMM!!! 
To compute or not to compute that is the question at hand. Tis nobler to compile in C++ or in TASM.
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tron_fanfare
User
Posts: 49 | Re: AMD or INTEL debacle
on Saturday, January, 17, 2004 4:24 PM
Okay here is some ofthe prototype fleshed out...I will prolly just build 2 identical machines for ease of maintence (use norton ghost to image one drive and then use the image for reinstalls when necessary)
Gigabyte Nforce 2 ga-7n400pro2 Motherboard...already purchased
athlon xp processor (unsure of speed yet)
1gb ddr 400 corsairs cl2 (2 512 sticks)
2 maxtor 160gb eide hard drives in raid 0 config (striping)
Radeon 9700 Pro 128
Gigabit Lan (on mainboard)
Soundblaster Platinum 5.1 with 4.1 digital speakers (from old system)
21" hewlitt packard CRT monitor (also from old system)
Microsoft Natural Ergo Keyboard
Optical mouse
Windows XP home SP1
Tell me what y'all think
"How are ya gonna run the universe if you can't even answer a few unsolvable problems?" - Flynn in the real world
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kmon
User
Posts: 191 | Re: AMD or INTEL debacle
on Saturday, January, 17, 2004 4:51 PM
I love intel products. First rule of thumb unless you love to burn cash, dont buy flagship processors. Getting a model or two down will give a MUCH higer performance vs cost ratio.
Fanfare: Whats your budget? The specs are not bad. I'd get faster ram for sure. 500mhz possible even splurge on 533, dont be afraid of the less agressive memory timings speed is more important (for oc'ing). I would save aside $200 or so for a high end cooling set to get some mad oc results. My comp is a p4 2.6ghz running at 3.4ghz aircooled!. And its a year old! You can easily get up to the 4 ghz mark (or 'equivelent' from the amd side) with a good water cooling setup. 4.5 ghz can be reached on the intel side (not really with an amd rig, sry) with a large condensor and motherboard mods.
I'd look into getting a dvd burner I love my Plextor 708a. And defintly need a cd burner at 52x's are getting really cheap. Also get xp pro not home! Trust me, much easier to manage. Your getting two of these...wow, now i am jealous..
Another question what are you doing for your network. Might want to consider either retiring an old comp or finding a 300mhz comp cheap and creating a gateway.
Good luck you to you.
^^ Full tower gamer ^^
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Compucore
User
Posts: 4,450 | Re: AMD or INTEL debacle
on Saturday, January, 17, 2004 5:09 PM
Come to think of it he could use he current computer to do that if its not being using for anything else. But you bring up a good point. Older systems can stil be recycled for other things in a small network area for home. That is what I am doing with an old Netserver over here. THat I am trying to get running as a server for a small thing that I could hook up certain things for it while my main machine is for something else entirely.
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Compucore
VROOOOOOOOOMMMM!!!
To compute or not to compute that is the question at hand. Tis nobler to compile in C++ or in TASM.
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tron_fanfare
User
Posts: 49 | Re: AMD or INTEL debacle
on Sunday, January, 18, 2004 12:17 AM
slow ram? fastest availavle other than rambus is DDR400 (aka pc3200) with a Cass latency of 2.0 for amd architechure so far...if theres faster out there i havent seen it available...feel free to post a link here. A gateway isnt a bad idea. Ive reciently added a wireless router/switch and have been trying to figure a way to consolidate that with a gigabit ethernet network. A gateway is the only way i could have both setups and not sacrafice peer to peer speed betweem the desktops. My old motherboard is a AD77 with raid so would make a good server/gateway and throw a copy of linux on it (probably debian or mabey my copy of windows 2003 server hehe). Im probably gonna use a Amd athlon Xp 2800 for the processor in the prototype. Only about $110 at the Fry's here. Anyway thanks for the ideas
As for budget im thinking in the $1500-$2000 range.
"How are ya gonna run the universe if you can't even answer a few unsolvable problems?" - Flynn in the real world
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kmon
User
Posts: 191 | Re: AMD or INTEL debacle
on Sunday, January, 18, 2004 11:55 AM
They actually have PC4400 Ram out (ddr 550). But its pretty expensive $400 for 1gb, if you want the best oc possible thats your ticket.
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=85019-1
I personally am drooling over that ram, and just might have to splurge.
For $100 less you drop down to 533
http://www.memory-up.com/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=M-533-512X2GL10244200DC
And500mhz can be had for $270
http://www.ocsystem.com/gepl1gpcdddu.html
I'd try and grab the 533mhz ram if your budget can swing it. Unless you dont intend to oc, then uber fast ram dosent do much good
I'd also make sure to get 8mb cache with your hd's. Like WD SE.
http://www.isystor.com/frgrshwediwd.html
So thats $115*2 (unless you really want SATA that'd be a bit more).
9700 pro can be had for around $210
You chip choice isint bad, they double in price going to the 3200...but more oc overhead, just gatta double check the budget.
So
Ram $300
HD's $230
GFX $210
Chip $100-200
You still have money to burn!
Another option you can do is dont exactly create the same systems. What does your finacee want to do with the mechine. If she isint a hardcore gamer, or do av work for a living, put a little more into your system. As for the cooling setup, lots of options. Look into swiftech www.swiftnets.com and their MCW462-UH. Peliters are they way to go! Around $100 for the cpu cooler, pump and radiator goes for another $100 or so. I'd also pick up a cooler for your gfx card $30. Seems expensive, you the extra is well worth it IMO. Way faster then any retail mechine (beside the exotic vapochill systems). Also I dont see a PSU listed. Get a large one, over 400 watts if possible. AMD systems are even stable under 235 watts, and the pelteris draw LOTS of amps (compared to say...fans). Also where is the case? Thats going to be another $100. If you have any questions feel free to ask. I wouldnt sweat not getting the full gbs support. I have gbs at home, and it is slight faster...over time. Gaming, dosent matter at all, transfering a few gb's of data across a network cuts about 30% of the time. I would do a gateway simple beacuse it is more robust and can be extremly secure. I like Drake, thats what my gateway runs, and I'm also running IPv6 just to be extra geeky. I have win2k3 on my wireless gateway, its pretty brainless I really like it. But nix is more secure and has a much smaller footprint. Keep us updated.
^^ Full tower gamer ^^
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tron_fanfare
User
Posts: 49 | Re: AMD or INTEL debacle
on Sunday, January, 18, 2004 3:46 PM
Already have a PS...500w high amperage power supply. Im not much of the overclocker I generally like to get maximum staility and durability out of my setups. I do tech support for a living and the last thing I need whenI get home is to troubleshoot my computers As for ram im gonna go Dual channel ddr400 since the board supports it up to 400 and that will go a long way in the price vs performance catagory. My fiancee's machine will be simular but not exactly the same...Prolly go with a Ati 9500 card for her, she a gamer but not much into the photorealism stuff or games with the system requirements of DOOM III for example. There are 2 reasons I went with Maxtor hds; 1 large capacity wd hds with 7200 RPM 133 dirves are rare in these parts and expensive when you find one...; 2 I've always had really good luck with maxtors and the return policy is much looser than WD.
My current gaming rig has 2 80gb ata133 7200 rpm drives and i love them to death not to mention in a raid0 array the performance is great!
"How are ya gonna run the universe if you can't even answer a few unsolvable problems?" - Flynn in the real world
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tron_fanfare
User
Posts: 49 | Re: AMD or INTEL debacle
on Sunday, January, 18, 2004 4:01 PM
Forgot the case...
I have a large midATX (nearly full atx) with a great cooling setup to it:
2 intake fans filtered at front of cse (80mm PABST fans)
1 top exaust fan
1 side intake fan positioned near the processor to supply cpu fan with fresh air
2 rear exaust fans positioned under the power supply near enough to the video card to draw air over the vid cards heatsink/fan
1 intake fan in powersupply facing inside of case
1 exaust fan in powersupply exausting out side
the 2 intake fans on the front of the case are positioned in front of a removable 5 capacity hard drive mounting rack. the drive mount on their sides. Since I have only 2 drives in there at the moment it leaves pleanty of room for the fresh air to keep them cool. Airflow through the case isnt hampered by cables either since im using all round high quality ATA133 cabling.
Cpu is cooled by a thermaltake volcano 2 copper cpu cooler with 80mm PABST fan attached.
End result of all this airflow? Cpu after 3 hours of hard gaming and rendering is running at 6 degrees celcius over ambient. remember this is with NO liquid or heat pump/peltier cooling. Processor is a AMD Athlon XP 2700. The downside to al the fans is if I add one more the FAA will want me to get a pilots licence to play computer games cause the thing will take off! Surprisingly its not too loud. All the fans I modified to mount over rubber gaskets and i have the screws holding the fans padded with rubber grommets. severly reduces noise transmitted outside to case.
The Case price was (2 years ago) $149 withOUT a power supply. A little steap at the time but its served me well. Its doesn't hurt either that its made of Brushed Aluminum Magnesium alloy and has a plexiglass overlay on the front so it looks good too
"How are ya gonna run the universe if you can't even answer a few unsolvable problems?" - Flynn in the real world
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