M0b1u5
User
Posts: 47 | About the lag issue.
on Monday, July, 28, 2003 6:08 PM
It should be obvious really I suppose, but the usual problems associated with FPS games are more than evident in Tron2.0
The LightCycles in particular are essentially unplayable at 270ms. Why the online games use a version of the map that ensures people are going mach 8 is beyond me - it merely makes the lag issue worse.
It doesn't matter that the game pops up a big warning that "Lightcycles are only for LAN play" - it was a serious mistake making the online map so fast.
I've been playing at 270-300ms to evaluate the playability, and the speed of play is the major factor.
Playing in games with others as low as 60ms (plus a couple of sub100s and one at 150ms) demonstrates the craziness of the situation.
The speeds are so high that I get taken out by riders and trails that don't even appear on my screen. I crash into a trail and continue for 12 more units before exploding!
My DSL is pretty solid loss wise, and typically is stable ping wise, it's just that I'm 30,000 klicks from most servers.
Playing with an Aussie at 150ms was quite acceptable with Discs, but Lightcycles still felt lagged because of the speed.
I think the longest online lightcycle game I've been in -- and I've played about 100 or so now -- has lasted about 20 seconds. That's not long enough in my view.
If the turbo curse and green areas were left out of maps, then overall speeds would be much lower, and the game would be much more playable at higher ping times.
Plus, you'd get to actually USE some of the skills you develop in the Single Player. After all, the Lightcycle game is as much a strategy as an action game. By making the game so fast (brief!) you allow only tactics and ping to dominate the game.
I very much hope the trend in serving Lightcycles errs towards slower, rather than faster LightCycle speeds.order abortion pill http://unclejohnsprojects.com/template/default.aspx?morning-after-pill-price where to buy abortion pill
----------------------------------------------
How many escape pods are there? "NONE, SIR!" You counted them? "TWICE, SIR!"
|
Compucore
User
Posts: 4,450 | Re: About the lag issue.
on Tuesday, July, 29, 2003 2:31 PM
Maybe the lag time is somewhere else between the server tha your playing and where you are. I have found that in some cases there is a server between me and the actual place that may be a bit slower than the actual server or myself when I was playing a number of years ago. 275MS sounds like a good average for any server for playing tron 2.0... But thats just my opinion.
2 Legit 2 quit
End of line 
Compucore 
VROOOOOOOOOMMMM!!! 
To compute or not to compute that is the question at hand. Tis nobler to compile in C++ or in TASM.
|
Particle_Man
User
Posts: 24 | Re: About the lag issue.
on Tuesday, July, 29, 2003 4:42 PM
wow you guys are WAY lag tollerant!
i wont even consider a server that's over 200, but i preffer no more than 150ms.
and i wont play on anything more than 100 for lightcycles
same goes for all other games i play (bf1942, the UT family)
But i have a question, where are the 'tron sector servers'? 
Particle Man
|
Compucore
User
Posts: 4,450 | Re: About the lag issue.
on Tuesday, July, 29, 2003 4:50 PM
I'm in the tech sector of things. I guess it depends on what you call tolerant on things. 250 MS is average on response time even if your quering a AIX mainframe machine.
abortion pills online http://www.kvicksundscupen.se/template/default.aspx?abortion-questions cytotec abortion
2 Legit 2 quit
End of line
Compucore
VROOOOOOOOOMMMM!!!
To compute or not to compute that is the question at hand. Tis nobler to compile in C++ or in TASM.
|
M0b1u5
User
Posts: 47 | Re: About the lag issue.
on Tuesday, July, 29, 2003 6:09 PM
It's not a question of "tolerance" because there are no Tron servers closer to me than 30,000 kilometres of fibre away! :P
Given that the Lightcycles are a highly ping-dependent routine, it's not surprising that 250+ms sucks donkey nuts for online play!
However, the lag issue is not merely the ping time - this, because my Key Macros often specify a wait of 250ms in between turns.
The issue is the SPEED OF PLAY. If lightcycles were limited to normal speeds (i.e. Normal Turbo only) then the online game would be MUCH more playable. Even at Normal Turbo speeds, the distance travelled in 250ms is not that great.
However, on the green areas, and with the Turbo Curse, speeds are MUCH higher, and the distance travelled in 250ms is more than TWICE the distance travelled under normal speed. This makes the lag unplayable.
I think it's insane to place green areas and a Turbo Curse in an online game of Lightcycles: the gamesonly last for seconds, and there's no way to use the THINKING skills you develop in SP mode.
It's interesting to note that there's a Maximum ping time for lightcycles, but no MINIMUM. This is something the developers should have thought of: laggers who want to play together without LPBs pissing all over everything they do!
I'd love to play normal-speed Lightcycles against other HPBs, but only if I know peeps with 30ms aren't going to come in and dominate the game - regardless of their skill!
Of course, it may be that the boxes I've been playing on are of low quality, or their connects to the backbone may be lame, in which case, the lag issue may appear less pronounced on PROPER dedicated servers plugged directly into a backbone.
Still, getting slammed by opponents whose bikes and trails don't even appear on my screen makes me question the netcode...order abortion pill abortion pill buy online where to buy abortion pill
----------------------------------------------
How many escape pods are there? "NONE, SIR!" You counted them? "TWICE, SIR!"
|
Scuzzy
User
![]()
Posts: 1,608 | Re: About the lag issue.
on Tuesday, July, 29, 2003 6:21 PM
I don't mean to be a PITA or anything, but I have a few concerns:
1) These are observations made based on the Demo, right? That demo is Alpha at best and I have a lot of faith that the DI team has tightened up whatever code they can for the game in all respects.
2) No matter how well written the net code is, there's always going to be that Great Unknown Variable itself: The Internet. Ever notice how on some days a web page takes forever to load even though the same page loaded great yesterday? No matter how fast the connection is, there will always be a graet inconsistancy in lag and latency on the Internet. It's been the bane of online gaming from the very beginning. I'm sure if if could be fixed on a programming level it would already be.
3) The Lightcycles are the ultimate in twitch gaming. Even the slightest amount of lag is going to cause havoc.
But as with everything else, we shall see.order abortion pill http://unclejohnsprojects.com/template/default.aspx?morning-after-pill-price where to buy abortion pill
 
Come on, you scuzzy data, be in there.
|
Compucore
User
Posts: 4,450 | Re: About the lag issue.
on Tuesday, July, 29, 2003 7:59 PM
SCSI I could not have said it any better than that. And I agree with you totally on that. Sometimes I think that the Internet is at one point or another a big black whole. (Not all the time. But one in a blue moon.
2 Legit 2 quit
End of line
Compucore
VROOOOOOOOOMMMM!!!
To compute or not to compute that is the question at hand. Tis nobler to compile in C++ or in TASM.
|
NOVA5
User
Posts: 9 | Re: About the lag issue.
on Saturday, September, 06, 2003 1:21 PM
M0b1u5 Wrote:It should be obvious really I suppose, but the usual problems associated with FPS games are more than evident in Tron2.0
The LightCycles in particular are essentially unplayable at 270ms. Why the online games use a version of the map that ensures people are going mach 8 is beyond me - it merely makes the lag issue worse.
|
They warned you about this. Also.. ALL Driving games have this problem. Lightcycles grid is considered a Driving game. they are all highly affected by lag. Its not a easily fixible issue until some genius comes up with FTL signal transmission.
It doesn't matter that the game pops up a big warning that "Lightcycles are only for LAN play" - it was a serious mistake making the online map so fast.
|
No it wasn't it would be to bloody slow in single player mode.
I've been playing at 270-300ms to evaluate the playability, and the speed of play is the major factor.
Playing in games with others as low as 60ms (plus a couple of sub100s and one at 150ms) demonstrates the craziness of the situation.
|
Again. FTL signalling needed to beat the problem entirley.
The speeds are so high that I get taken out by riders and trails that don't even appear on my screen. I crash into a trail and continue for 12 more units before exploding!
|
Seen that... been a part of that one.. odd to. anyhow the other problem is those damn green trails in the Speedup zones... damn near invisible..
My DSL is pretty solid loss wise, and typically is stable ping wise, it's just that I'm 30,000 klicks from most servers.
Playing with an Aussie at 150ms was quite acceptable with Discs, but Lightcycles still felt lagged because of the speed.
|
I tried Need For Speed 5's online racing.. cars would flicker in and out of place due to the lag issue. racing is highly dependent on low low low lag.
I think the longest online lightcycle game I've been in -- and I've played about 100 or so now -- has lasted about 20 seconds. That's not long enough in my view.
|
Some admins love ultrashort games... i can't see why. lessens the fun of draggin out the kill.
If the turbo curse and green areas were left out of maps, then overall speeds would be much lower, and the game would be much more playable at higher ping times.
Plus, you'd get to actually USE some of the skills you develop in the Single Player. After all, the Lightcycle game is as much a strategy as an action game. By making the game so fast (brief!) you allow only tactics and ping to dominate the game.
|
Yea but where would be the fun in no turbo curse? everyone gets affected.. deal with it. green? slower than turbo or turbo curse.
I very much hope the trend in serving Lightcycles errs towards slower, rather than faster LightCycle speeds.
|
I hope speeds arn't touched at all. people tend to learn certian reactions based on speed. changing the speeds will cause problems.
|
|